How do you get better compliance in a SLD/ASD child

[magso]

Ds is 8 . He has learning disabilities, language delay, adhd dcd and asd. Of these I would say the failing to learn (especially from experience), egocentricity and impulsiveness are the most disabling. He is now at MLD school and is certainly happier than in ms. He has made some physical leaps forward - learning to balance on his bike,colouring in instead of allover marks, catching on to imaginative play (as opposed to 'repeats' of modeled play or scenes from dvds!). But he still wants to do everything on his own terms and is still completely egocentric. At home we can manage (well mostly!)- we Delight in compliance, and give consequences for non-compliance (after a warning). We have a set of consequences for unacceptable behaviour (eg anything aggressive or destructve), and we are very clear (mild overacting) and try for absolute consistancy. Ds seems to need this constant external support, and without (such as at school) it he is 'naughty' 'very noisy' 'enjoys annoying other children' . I have tried gradually pulling back - but nothing seems to internalise for long if at all. I always have to go back and work on something we thought he'd got!
Starting school was a huge problem because there is so much to work on and only me ( and dh) to work on them. I have wondered about starting an ABA program, but finances are tight. I also feel very unsupported, because ds had a difficult start to life and was dxd late despite constant pushing.
Whilst ds was at ms I was busy trying to do the things school were not ( numbers, finemotor skills, communication letters). Now he is at mld ( who have the skills to work at ds level)I need to reorient.
I have wondered if one of the problems at school is that he expects to be stopped if he transgressses, and assumes that teachers are allseeing and if not stopped it is ok. He also only sees his own point of view - he insists on hugging children who hate it (he likes hugs. I have tried simple social stories. Ds does not deliberatly hurt or distress others - he just doesnt think ahead or understand others are different. Can theory of mind be taught or encouraged in any way?
Sorry Long. I feel I've achieved so little and am thrashing around in the dark.

Should have had (sld asd)! What I'm asking is how can I get ds to do as his teachers ask without asking twice or reminding of consequences!At home I still have to touch him and eye to eye him (IYKWIM)to get his attention in many situations. If I could get him to react to requests immediatly (without the extras)at home perhaps it would cross over to school life. His hearing is fine - just his listening/ attention/ helpfulness dodgy!

be very interested to see what advice you get on this magso. My dd is 4 and is being assessed at the minute with the likelihood of Aspergers. Compliance is a big thing with us - same as you we have to have constant reminders of consequences (even with a few minutes) and if i'm not there then she doesn't seem to remember the consequence thing at all. i find it hard because what works one day with dd won't work the next - so a reward etc can be the best motivation one day but not so the next. Also I get fed up of constantly having to find things to motivate her to comply (and remember to comply) and also the consequence (things will vary on this too). Any advice you get i will be following!!!!

Something Growing Minds said (although not about compliance as such) was to only give instructions once- so the child learns to pay attention to speech.

I think it's hard for you to tell the school what to do, they need to find their own strategies although you could tell them what works at home.

Yurt thanks - perhaps I could start with desirable things like 'shall I put (favorite dvd) on? and just not do it if I get no response.
School are working on his listening skills (his language delay affects both understanding and speech) and I am pleased to say he is now getting SALT input.
I am wondering about a visit to BIBIC in Somerset, could they set up some behavioural stratagies? I am torn between trying to work more so I can afford more in terms of therapy or even aba, which will leave me little time for ds. I feel I am failing my ds at present as his progress in many areas is so slow.
Knat, thanks fo taking an interest. ds also forgets consequenses - its as if he cannot bear it in mind whilst he thinks of something else like walking upstairs! He doesnt learn from experience either, so he makes the same mistakes repeatedly - like opening doors over his toes and into his head! I think I can cope better with the things he can never do, its the ups and downs of his other skills that throw me!

I am no expert but my ABA tutors have really helped me with DS's behaviours (he's now 5). They insist that we ignore attention-seeking behaviour, and just hold his hand so he can't harm himself but turn away, give him no eye contact and even talk to someone else until he quitens down completely. Then you turn to him excitedly to do something nice, so he learns that the good behaviour gets good results and the bad behaviour just gets boring results. For aggressive behaviours, we used aversive therapies (eg hairwash) and this helped us stop him being aggressive. I also made up a behavioural technique of my own (not sure if it's recommended, but it works for me!) and it's zero tolerance. EG, if he wants to eat, he sits down. If he gets up and walks around, the food is taken away till he sits down. Zero tolerance on walking around and spilling food! At first, it can be hell and it drives you mad, but eventually he gets the idea. I also used zero tolerance for wearing clothes (he used to prefer to be naked) and for using a fork, and for using the loo etc etc. It is tiring, and it can take months, but when you see that it works and that it changes their behaviours for good, you feel a sense of achievement. I must admit to quite a lot of shouting and screaming and using anger along the way, but then which of us mums of SEN kids is perfect!! Good luck!

AMAM (thats what I am too!)thanks! We have very few problems with aggression and doing things he should not, although we still have to use these techniques. I do as you do and turn away /freeze him out whilst taking a sudden interest in other things , and I still take his food away if he gets down from the table. Its when he is required (particularly at school) to do what is asked when he is asked. He behaves like he is deaf - or that it doesn't apply to him or that he is too busy! Active ignoring does not work as well in these circumstances, so I use consiquenses. I need to train him to listen and respond promptly without warnings.

I'd love to know how you can improve attention and listening skills - I find my DS attends just fine if I ask something like "who wants some ice-cream?" (has learnt that if he shouts "I!" first, then he'll get it first), and completely ignores me at other times!

Re teaching theory of mind skills, yes you can teach those! We've just finished working through this book, which is a practical guide to teaching mind-reading skills. My DS has hugely benefited from this; it did take a lot of time and effort to teach, but the fantastic thing is that, after mastering the first stages, he "got" the last stage (false beliefs, which is essentially the Sally-Anne test) without any formal teaching!

Thanks Homsa! That book looks good. You are right about saying icecream! Selective deafness!pPerhaps its that selective hearing I need to expand IYKWIM. Thanks

It has just occurred to me that what I need to work on is starting desirable behaviour! Ds has got quite good at stopping the unwanted stuff (like aggression/ meltdowns), which have always had immediate consequenses at home. I think he understands simple spoken language well enough now to learn to to do as asked without warnings raised voices or repetitions.
I also need to work on him being more flexible in what he'll wear/eat/drink from, which way he'll walk, what order to dress etc(he ripped the zippull off his favorite coat today - that will be trouble tommorrow morning!)
So that is 3 different issues ( with working on empathy)! Think I'll work on the listening and responding first!
So how do you work on getting kids to listen and respond by aba or rdi techniques?

AMAM how do you do xero tolerance with reagard to dressing and using the loo as these are areas i have a lot of trouble wiht too. I also have provlems with aggression with her

Yes I was wondering that, as we have difficulty getting ds to use the loo on time! I use the techniques of frequent positive praise to encourage dressing (as per Webber Stratton), but it is so wearying! As soon as I pull back (eg try for 2 socks between noticing!) it all goes haywire again! I do race him for dressing and that will work somedays (I always give him a chance to win!), or try to get him to beat the timer to win extra tv minutes. I wish he would get on with it and not need my constant re-enforcement and resourcfullness! I need to move things forward! I will admit to a rather loud 'NOW please' which causes every other child within earshot to jump to attention, but ds knows it means 'now or else a consiquence' and usually manages a understated responce!

I don't have any fabulous answers on zero tolerance for dressing and using the loo - except for this, I see it that it is a battle I am going to win, as I am the adult and he is the child, and even if I have to put him back on the loo every 5 mins when I think a wee or poo is due, or make him stay on there for an hour if there is definitely a poo coming, I do it. With dressing, I sit there many a morning shouting "socks on", "shoes on", "trousers on", but I absolutely will not help him as I know he is delaying hoping that eventually I'll cave in and do it for him. It comes from me being a stubborn xxxxx myself, I suppose, and absolutely being determined that this is a battle I am going to win. Eventually eventually, he gets the message that I am not going to give in, and he complies. He's been toilet trained for 2 years, but it probably took me 6 months to get it done. That was a very long six months, but if you are consistent and determined I think you can crack it. I did also use aversive techniques for accidents, eg full shower if he did wee or poo anywhere other than loo, plus angry face. I know you are not supposed to do the angry face, but for me, he needs to see exaggerrated responses or else he doesn't get it - so, for instance, praising him when he does use the loo properly had absolutely no effect, unless coupled with aversive therapies when he did it on the floor/in the paddling pool/in the bath! I was lucky in a way as he hates hairwash, so I could always threaten him with that!Sounds cruel, but I believe it would have been crueller for his friends to see him pooing in the paddling pool! Good luck with whatever you try, it is hard work!

thanks amam. I have teh same with praise - it really doesnt have much effect! DD has just come down with measles now so everything has gone to pot!

AMAM, I'm glad I'm not alone in using the exaggerated angry/ sad face to communicate displeasure, (and whole body 1-2-3 count downs)! I will also admit to using a loud clipped voice for NOW! DINNER FIRST! etc. And thanks- I often feel a failure because encouragement/ praise alone does not work without the loud voice, displeasure and consequenses!
Knat I hope dd is ok!

Magso and Knat - I think mums who say they don't shout at their kids (NF or SEN) are basically lying! Everyone does it but nowadays we all have to pretend to be perfect because that's the image we believe we have to live up to. Sometimes I think women put pressure on other women to be perfect far more than men do, and some of the mummy mafia stuff I come across now I'm a full time stay-at-home mum drives me mad! I had one mum tell me at great length how to hand-roll and hand-breadcrumb organic chicken nuggets. I took quite a lot of pleasure in telling her that I find Birds Eye pretty good actually. After all, just because we gave birth doesn't mean we automatically became saints!

AMAM I agree there is a lot of pressure to follow the putative perfect path! All the books say we shouldn't use raised voices with asd kids but I just feel that without a raised voice (if I am not 'heard' the first time with a softer voice) he will never tune in and hear me. I suppose I am desperatly trying to get my child to behave more like a nt child which is a bit of a tall order! (And personally I cant see the point of chicken nuggets when unbreadcrumbed plain chicken tastes better, IMHO why copy birdseye anyway? )