Fine at home, awful at school.

[User156462]

DS is almost 9. He's on the pathway for an ADHD diagnosis and ADHD. He is dyspraxic and already has this diagnosis.

He's was seen by an educational pyschologist last year who said he has poor working memory but is very bright in many respects. He meets academic expectations at school without much effort. We think he could do better academically but that's not a priority for us at the moment.

At home he is honestly easy going. Plays well with his siblings, doesn't really have meltdowns, is obedient, does his homework, switches off screens etc without too much fuss. He's easy to parent. He's quirky and struggles with focus, sure but he's not naughty at all.

At school he's rude, he calls out, he shouts, he screams, he pushes furniture and hides under tables. Not all the time, but at least once or twice a week. He has pastoral support and is on a behaviour support plan. There are no threats of exclusion or anything. He is never aggressive towards others, just disruptive and obviously very unhappy.

He cannot articulate anything about school other than sometimes people annoy him and are loud. He has ear defenders. He does wear these sometimes.

I cannot emphasise enough how fine he is at home and anywhere else. He copes with all his extra curricular activities in the way you'd expect a child who struggles to focus. He's fine at places like soft play, busy theme parks etc. The only place we notice he struggles in cafes and restaurants where he literally can't keep still if he's not eating and if we have to wait in a long queue when he can get a bit silly.

I hear so many stories of people who have the opposite, children who are fine at school but explode at home because it's their safe space. Why is it the other way around for us? We are quite firm with him with rules and expectations but we are good parents.

Please tell me if you've had experience of this. I can't make head or tail of it.

We have considered moving schools and giving him a fresh start somewhere else and wonder if the problem is his particular school or just school in general.

We are at a loss. I can't cope with the constant - oh he's been really quite tricky today conversations with school every day anymore. Everyone who knows him outside of school is just massively surprised when they find out how he is at school.

I don't think his teachers believe me when I tell them he's fine at home. Think they just think we let him get away with everything and that he's on his iPad all day.

Whilst you do hear more stories about children being fine at school (they’re masking) and then having melt downs at home, it may just be that your DS isn’t feeling the need to mask at school and so let’s it out when they’re not supporting his needs.

As it’s a primary school, I’m guessing they don’t have anything like a sensory hub? Or do they? If yes, you could have a conversation with staff about when and how he could access it and if they don’t have one, you could speak to the SENDCo about creating one.

The good thing is that your DS has actually told you the reasons why he finds it difficult sometimes - the loud noise and sometimes other kids that annoy him. School should be able to help put something more supportive in place than they are currently and hopefully, he’ll feel more relaxed and able to cope.

It’s good to get this sorted out now with some really good support that works effectively because generally speaking, transition to mainstream secondary is a bit of a nightmare if not well organised.

The other way is more common ( due to masking) but it's not unheard of for them to be worse in school. At home you're either consciously or unconsciously reducing or removing the things they struggle with ( and there are less anyway), so they are in a less stressful environment. For example I can warn DD if I'm about to do something noisy, school can't warn her if another child in the class is going to randomly shout out or take away all the playground noise.

It’s not unusual to present differently in different settings. It happens both ways round.

Does DS have an EHCP? What support is the school currently providing?

He doesn't have an EHCP, I am going to push for one I think. School say he doesn't need anything more than they can provide and so it's not necessary. He meets academic expectations with ease so they seem to be very unconcerned. He just seems to be have been labelled as naughty and difficult. He doesn't have a huge number of friends because of his behaviour and he does get left out of things. Outside of school he has a few friends and seems totally fine with them.

He has a wobble cushion, fiddle toys and sensory breaks - though not sure how often the sensory breaks actually happen. He's also allowed to type instead of writing. That's about it. Obviously he has the behaviour plan but that's not really adjustments they have made.

And yes home is definitely not stressful for him. It's calm and quiet and fairly routine. We are not a chaotic household. We have firm and clear boundaries and expectations so I suspect this does make him feel comfortable.

He often complains that things at school are unfair or that he can't understand "why x did y" when neither x or y have anything to do with him. Last week his teacher made the wrong child move to the back of the line for talking and I didn't hear the end of it. I mean, it wasn't him and it didn't affect him but it obviously also did affect him? School say he doesn't seem stressed at all and is happy and smiley. He doesn't like school at all but when we asked if he wanted to move school he said definitely not.

You can apply for an EHCNA yourself. On their website IPSEA have a model letter you can use. If DS didn’t need more support than the school are currently providing school wouldn’t be so stressful for DS and there wouldn’t be so many incidents.

The sensory breaks need to happen. Are the school not providing anything like emotional literacy support, sensory circuits, drawing and talking, nurture group, social skills support? Have they looked at his placement within the classroom? If DS needs more sensory input than a wobble cushion have they tried sensory bands on the chair legs or an exercise/peanut ball or a rocker/bouncy chair?

He does have some social skills with a 1:1 ta once a week but that was my suggestion.

Nothing else on your list. They haven't tried anything like that sensory wise. The Ed Pysch suggested some of them but they haven't tried them as far as I know. They seem to think the wobble cushion is enough 🤷

At home he doesn't have anything special to sit on, but we just let him go play when he wants to I guess. He does sit and do his homework but only 15/30 mins absolute max at once. We don't ask much of him.

I'm worried he's maybe masking at home, is that ridiculous?!

It’s unlikely DS is masking at home all the time. It is more likely the environment and demands meet his needs better and you have naturally adapted how you do things to better meet his needs.

I agree with @FloatingBean - it’s unlikely he would mask at home.
it sounds to me as though your home is almost like a ‘zero demands parenting’ type of environment and the rules you do have, aren’t too much for your DS to handle.

His school however, don’t sound like they’re mirroring that at all.
They probably think ‘we’re doing great’ by providing the wobble board but I think if you could fund it or ask if your local foundation trust provides them, a sensory integration assessment with an OT might be useful. That would also then bump up your evidence (and what is needed in school) for the EHCP if you apply for one.

If you apply for an EHCNA and the LA agree to assess, a sensory OT assessment can be part of the needs assessment without the need to sit on the normal waiting list and even if your ICB doesn’t normally fund sensory OT.

I should have said, he has been seen by an OT. When he was in y1 we paid privately for it. He has very poor sensory integration and does have sensory processing difficulties. He has poor bilateral coordination and proprioceptive skills. Probably the wrong terminology but that's what I remember. School sort of said "ok thanks for this" when they got the report and then just gave him a wobble cushion.

I'm really glad to hear you don't think it's likely he masks at home. I just feel so sad when I hear of kids exploding at home where they feel safe knowing mine does the opposite. 😢 It worried me.

My DS is 18 just turned.
Before at primary school, and with transition to secondary he was having melt downs daily and eventually ended up refusing school in year 7 altogether.
The melt downs were horrific.
He masked 100% at school.

Move forward to year 9, having been out of school for almost 2 yrs, and he had an EHCP and moved to a special school. He’s never had a melt down since because his school met his needs. It was that simple.

He did have a few times where he would freeze and go into himself (like a silent meltdown) but that wasn’t often and was always due to something specific which school hadn’t considered would affect him.

Once a child’s needs are being met, it becomes very apparent (and much more relaxed) very quickly.

It sounds like he is experiencing sensory overload in school, but home is much more manageable, so you do not get the same responses.
The OT assessment presumably came back with some suggestions for support - some guidelines for school to help him manage the day? Was the OT a Sensory Integration (SI) Specialist? If so, and they found other things like the noise hypersensitivity etc, and school have this information, be aware they are duty bound to act on it as best as they reasonably can. If the OT was not an SI specialist, then try to get to see one. It does sound as if that is who you need to see. It seems obvious this is not just dyspraxia.
For a Sensory Processing assessment, it is useful when clinicians also check with the school and additionally do a school environment checklist. This gives details of an individual's difficulties in relation to the school environments and day, and teachers (particularly the SENCo) should be able to use this information, together with specific information on an individual child, to do a sensory audit of their environments which may help them recognise areas/situations that cause that individual high anxiety. Seating positions, over busy/noisy classrooms etc can have a major impact on a child's ability to cope. A day is a LONG time when you are overwhelmed and uncomfortable. Some things are really simple to adapt and can have a really positive impact...
It does sound as if he would benefit from further assessment and support.

His behaviour plan (Positive Behaviour Support?) should have strategies for support that include adjustments for reducing anxiety. A good idea might be to get someone to do a 5 point scale (www.5pointscale.com/) or similar with him (there are lots of versions of this). This is always really helpful as it helps a person to talk through their anxieties and difficulties and work out how to manage them within their own way of understanding. It is very visual and therefore relatively easy to use during more difficult times. Maybe the social skills person could do this?
Just as an aside, for social skills, it is always helpful to have a good peer role model in these sessions. Even better if you can have a small group with about 50% who have no difficulties to be the role models. My experience is definitely that children seem to learn better from / with their peers in social skills groups.

I really would apply for an EHCNA. It sounds like DS needs up to date assessments and far more support than he is currently receiving. The good thing about an EHCP is it can include ongoing therapies.

Thanks so much everyone, I feel so much better reading these replies. It's so hard having a ND child but also at the same time his needs are not as extreme as others so I feel like I should be ok with them all.

Any insights into how he can cope with things like busy soft play/theme parks etc but not school. Is it because I'm not there, maybe? Or because they are things he wants to do?! We notice he gets overwhelmed in shops like Hamleys or when choosing a book from the library, he just can't pick anything and his head is all over the place. He doesn't misbehave but he does often say he's had enough and asks to go - which we do.

I will apply for an EHCNA. You are right that I should. He would undoubtedly benefit from occupational therapy.

Our 7 year old son is the same. Just lovely at home, with friends and clubs. Much of the time at school he can be a horror. He has had ELSA sessions and from that we know that his anxiety is school related - fear of not understanding what he has to do in lessons, fear of being sent home again (he’s had several fixed term exclusions for aggressive behaviour) and anxiety about being away from me (Mum). He too is going to have an OT assessment for SPD and we are in the midst of an EHCNA. We’ve been advised to also seek Educational Psychology assessments and clinical psychology assessments as part of the EHCNA. I can’t really add more to the excellent comments that have already been posted, just to say yes those conversations with teachers at the end of the day are draining, I completely feel for you. Anxiety in children is often read by school (in my experience) as “just bad behaviour”. Become really acquainted with freeze, flight and fight and talk to the school about how your son presents in these situations and what they can do to help him at the freeze stage. Those conversations that I’ve had with school have probably been the most valuable ones that I’ve had to date with them.

Soft play and theme parks aren’t the same as school. Despite both being noisy and with others around him the environments are completely different. They aren’t day in day out without an escape route. They also don’t require DS to be sat still in a difficult sensory environment. It is likely you spot and handle situations before they escalate much better than school currently are.

Making choices can be difficult for some DC. It doesn’t work for all DC but sometimes offering a more limited choice helps.

As well as OT a SALT assessment would be beneficial.

Just picking up on your comment ...at the same time his needs are not as extreme as others so I feel like I should be ok with them all...

You do not have to feel you should be 'ok' with anything. This is NOT about other people's children, this is about your child and you are right to raise concerns. You are your son's advocate and strongest ally in this. Go ruffle a few feathers!!!

Re the environments and things like library;
The lack of demand in the soft play (and lack of school uniform?) and lack of set agenda will be less stressful (not to mention likely to be positive from a sensory integration perspective) and as you said, he can leave when he shows he is ready. As for the library - WAY too much choice for some children.

Guided choosing! A choice of 2 books is usually enough. Find a way (like flow chart of choice - visually on paper, before you leave home - what type of book? Fiction, fact? Oh, fact... Animals or etc etc... Oh Animals, sharks? Dinosaurs? Dino. etc. etc... this way you are heading to a set section - the trip is now more predictable - thereby making it less likely to raise anxiety. Get down to just a couple of books and pick one of those. Maybe also take out a favourite book as a form of reading 'comforter' (I don't know your son, but this works well with some children...). The next visit, maybe take the other one?
Reducing the 'open-endedness' of the experience should be much easier for him to manage. This may apply in several situations and is likely to be a useful tactic in school.
Good luck Monday!

It sounds like the school environment is just very tough for your son, whereas at home you are able to adapt it to suit him well. And you know him well, you are attuned to him, and you don't have dozens of other children to think about, so you are able to give him whatever input he needs.

Since all his problems seem to centre on school, then taking school out of the picture would be ideal. Would you consider home education?

I wouldn’t deregister. Parents often find it easier to get support when they remain on the school’s roll even if their DC can’t attend. Crudely you are someone’s problem, whereas it is easier for professionals to sweep DC’s needs under the carpet if you EHE. If DS isn’t able to attend school the LA must provide alternative education under s.19 of the Education Act 1996. But if you deregister and EHE you relieve the LA of their duty to provide education.

In the medium to long term if school is inappropriate EOTAS via an EHCP is possible which unless you are rich can provide much more support, provision, therapies than anyone can EHEing.

I can't and won't home educate, it wouldn't be right for him.

I firmly believe that school can make it work. He's not unhappy and he says school is ok. He just needs more adjustments than he currently has.

Sorry for coming onto the thread late. My DS (age 6) is like your DS turned all the way up to 11. He is a lovely little boy at home. He’s kind, polite, thoughtful, caring and extremely intelligent. We take him all over the place to museums, funfairs, the seaside, on holiday and on train trips with his little brother (age 3) who he is extremely protective of. He is an absolute dream (unlike little brother… cough).

My DS was diagnosed with autism aged 4 after being expelled from a private kindergarten from literally trashing the entire classroom every day. At one point, he was dragged out the door by two teachers :‘(

He’s currently at a mainstream state school where he can manage in the classroom for about 50% of the time. He has a 1-to-1 and they’re going through the EHCP process. He has his own desk, a trampoline outside the classroom, his own curriculum (practically), etc. etc. The school say his support needs are ‘extreme’ and think he might need to go into a DSP for secondary.

So, yes, that happens. I think we’re just good at supporting his needs.