"Fat f***ing idiot!" How to respond?

[Whatafustercluck]

Just been called this, not for the first time by any stretch, by my 6yo daughter. My crime? We were going to cuddle up in bed and start watching Matilda but the TV wasn't quite right and she couldn't see it properly (it's fine, dh and I watch it in the same position every night). Tried to adjust it and she got more irritable, resulting in this. She's having what I describe as a 'flare up' for unknown reasons, is struggling with getting dressed and has refused school altogether twice this week. School aware and trying to support, we have a meeting on Monday and they need to fill in various documents for CAMHS as she's as yet undiagnosed and is "fine at school". I know she doesn't mean it and I'm trying hard not to react, but I feel like I'm in an abusive relationship. Do I ignore? Do I react/ punish in some way? She knows it's hurtful, she's just pushed a piece of paper under the door saying she's sorry and loves me. It was shaping up to be such a happy start to the day. Now I'm all churned up inside, feel sick with dread about what else is coming today.

As hard as it is, you have to stay calm and not react to it. The behaviour and flare ups are all the result of her anxiety, emotional immaturity l, unmet needs at school and not having a clue how to react to everything that she’s feeling. You can tell her, calmly, that it’s not ok to talk to you like that but if you get angry with her and/or punish her you are just going to make her feel worse.

When she is calm does she talk to you about how she’s feeling?

No, we have absolutely no idea. She clams up, gets irritable, angry or just says nothing. It's been gradually getting worse since she went back to school after Christmas. For the past two nights she's thrown her dinner across the room. Lots of screaming, shouting, abuse - anything and nothing can set her off. Then she sobs because she feels terrible. We have no idea what has triggered the latest episode and we're trying so hard not to react, but her rages terrify us.

The things that seem to trigger her aren’t the real issue, these are just the final straws that are tipping her over when she’s in a safe place (home). What are school doing to support her while she’s there? Even if she’s accepted by CAMHS they have a waiting list. What day to day strategies work at home to help relieve her anxiety? If you haven’t already, you will like find that you will need to be quite flexible and adjust for things that she finds hard.

I know exactly what these sorts of episodes are like, they are not reflective of who your child really is. Work on staying calm, not getting triggered or shouting, as this just escalates things.

Resolving the school issues are most likely part of the bigger solution, but if you want some guidance on how to cope at home I can recommend the book 10 days to a less defiant child. It’s not about autism but it has some really good strategies about how to stop yelling and power struggles and how to parent when your child doesn’t respond to the usual parenting strategies. It’s very much in line with all the other child psychologists that I’ve read but very straightforward and more geared towards kids that are atypical.

Have you kept a detailed diary and looked at ABC charts to spot triggers?

In the moment I would ignore the insults, and discuss the whole situation when DD’s calmer after the meltdown.

Yvonne Newbold’s resources and Ross Greene’s book The Explosive Child can be helpful.

Are school providing support? Has DD had SALT and OT assessments?

School's help is focused only on addressing the here and now - things like accepting that she won't be in uniform if that's the only way we can get her to school. They don't believe she has SEN as she's meeting expectations. We spoke to the senco today and while she agrees "there's something going on" she said she doesn't think ASD or ADHD. They can't address problems they can't see/ don't notice.

I've read the Explosive Child and Raising a Sensory Smart Child etc and kept diaries. Some of the behaviours can be anticipated with some obvious triggers, many remain that are a mystery.

It took 2 hours to get her out of the house this morning, but she's had a much better evening - more like her old self again, chatty, happy etc. She did however miss a party yesterday as we couldn't leave the house and she missed her taekwondo class tonight - again due to clothing related issues.

No assessments yet, we have to meet the criteria/ threshold for the pathway here. Our meeting with the school's senco today was to fill in all the paperwork and evidence everything we've done so far via the mental health team.

School’s help shouldn’t only be focused on the here and now. It is highly unlikely DD’s needs can’t be seen at school. The school just need to pay more attention. A pupil can have SEN and be academically able. They must make their best endeavours to meet a pupil’s SEN. What the diagnosis is or isn’t is irrelevant, support in school is based on needs.


Try keeping a detailed diary again as there will be a trigger.

You already meet the threshold for referral. In many areas you can self refer to SALT and OT. If you can’t ask the GP if the school won’t or are delaying.


You can also apply for an EHCNA yourself. Then if the LA agree to carry out an EHCNA assessments can be undertaken without the need to sit on the normal waiting lists.

OK, I've just looked at how to do that locally and note they will only undertake an EHCNA when: there is evidence that a child has or may have special educational needs - I.e. a learning difficulty so that they have a significantly greater difficulty in learning than the majority of others of the same age. The school senco was at pains to stress there are no learning difficulties as dd is at expected levels across the board (with exception of writing - specifically handwriting and grammar). I am happy to try anything, but this does seem to indicate that we may be knocking at a closed door?

DD does have SEN. The definition of SEN is explained by IPSEA here. Having SEN and thus a learning difficulty &/or a disability does not prevent any child or young person from also being at ARE or even exceeding ARE.

You should apply for an EHCNA. Regardless of what LA you are in the only lawful threshold for an EHCNA is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP. Anything else is unlawful. Refusing because DD is at ARE would be unlawful.

Thanks @JustKeepBuilding I've filled in the form, attached all the evidence I can and sent it off.

If the LA refuse you should appeal as the majority of appeals are successful. Unfortunately, many LAs refuse as a matter of course.

Keep pushing you know your child best it's sad that for some reason many people (narrow minded ) believe that children with SEN needs are not able ie academically oh doing really well at school there's nothing wrong all is fine but fail to realize that it doesn't just stop at education that's why it's a spectrum my daughter (4)has asd she is so very clever but verbally and socially she struggles a great deal ( being left alone is how she like it ) but it doesn't mean she doesn't have SEN it just means in my eyes learning is her muse socialising is not and to be honest I don't blame her

Have a look at the PDA society website and read up on the profile. If it rings bells for you with your daughter, try implementing PDA strategies listed on the website.

Lots of what you describe is similar to my DD, who is PDA, including the sudden screaming of insults at 'minor' things like TV at wrong angle, school avoidance, need to control what she wears etc, volatile mood, launching plates of food across the room. Also your SenCo comment that there's something going on but not quite ASC or ADHD could fit with the difficulty people often have of pinpointing PDA. It's a profile of autism, but it needs very specific strategies.

Well, the EHCNA got rejected. Dd was until this week school refusing since before Feb half term but they've said because she's meeting expectations academically, and her behaviours are not witnessed at school, they're refusing it. I've been told that an appeal is only likely to be successful once she has a formal diagnosis. She's been back at school half days since Monday and already we're seeing regression, despite our best efforts. It took 6 weeks to get her over the peak anxiety - 6 weeks of me signed off work, doing one to one with her to reduce her anxiety enough to wear clothes again. And already it's falling apart again. I'm supposed to start back at work again on Monday. She's supposed to be back at school full time.

Appeal. Many LAs reject the majority of requests. The vast majority of appeals are upheld.

I've been told that an appeal is only likely to be successful once she has a formal diagnosis.

Who told you this? It is rubbish. The only lawful threshold is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP. Not having a diagnosis, being academically able and masking aren’t lawful reasons to refuse.

If in the meantime add can’t attend school full time the LA must provide provision under s.19 of the Education Act 1996.

Our family worker and the mediation service the LA put us in touch with ("yoy must use them before appealing") told us this. Funnily enough, when I asked the school senco yesterday if dd is on their SEN register, she replied that she is not and they prefer a diagnosis first. We pushed back on that, supported well by our case worker, saying it could be years before we get that, knowing the waiting times. In the end they conceded to adding her. All the agreed actions are being drawn up into notes which we can submit as evidence to CAMHS to support a decision on neurodevelopmental assessment. Dd was observed, finally (we have been pushing for it for 12 months), by the school's link SEND support worker, who has now confirmed the presence of anxiety and sensory processing difficulties and also made some recommendations that are being added to a detailed report for the school and us. It finally feels like some progress is being made, and we're beginning to understand more about her triggers. My concern though is that without the EHCP in place, it's doubtful the school with continue to take our concerns seriously. I'm now in the process of arranging the call with the mediation service who need to issue a certificate to allow our appeal to go straight to tribunal. What a palaver!

Ignore the family worker and the mediation service it categorically isn’t true.

You only have to consider mediation you don’t have to actually partake in it, just get the certificate and submit to SENDIST. LAs often use mediation as a delaying tactic, if they are going to concede they will do so regardless of whether you actively partake or just get the certificate.