Talk to me about ODD please

[NAB3wishesfor2008]

Oppositional defiant disorder.

How much or how little do you already know? The signs vary from some pretty compulsive "naughtiness" in small children to a teen that a parent has no idea how to parent because they appear to bite their own nose off to spite their own face. It's often co-morbid with ASD or ADHD.

A friend's son was diagnosed with it a few years ago. He was 6 at the time and told her and his psychologist about how just thinking about rules and expectations gave him such a bad headache he had to break them to make it feel better. It's somewhat at the front of my mind at the moment, because DS1 has a primary diagnosis of Autism with ADHD but now he's 4, we're getting to the point of wondering if he's experiencing the worst of being 4 to the extreme or if ODD is coming into the picture as a co-morbid. We see his paediatrician in a couple of months, so we'll discuss it then.

www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ebdstudy/disord1/oppose.htm

Try here.

NAB, i have been following your threads and know what you are going through at the moment. I myself have driven myself mad trying to find an explanation for my DS behaviour and have just finished assessment at CAMHS for DS(7). We are now waiting for there report to find out what is wrong with our DS.

I know nothing at all. DH found info on ODD and wonders if our son does have it. DS2 is on his way to bed soon and once I have eaten I will look at the link and info. Thank you.

BTW What does CAMHS stand for?

Our child is fine at school. I asked his teacher this morning if she had any problems and she said no. He behaves better for my MIL but when he is there she gives him 100&. He will be cheeky but wouldn't do the things he does here. He seems in a self destruct phase and I am failing him as I feel like I can't do it anymore.

I have pains in my head and I am sure it is stress related.

CAMHS = child and adolescent mental health services

DS is also going though a phase like this. He doesn't have a dx yet but many traits of ASD and ADHD. He has always been quite oppositional and defiant but things have definitely got worse the last few months. I am starting to wonder whether ODD may be involved as well.

{{hugs}} its horrible when nothing you do seems to reach them I seem to have a permanent headache at the moment.

Oh shit (sorry)

I don't know what ASD is either

He is nearly 7. If there were any problems wouldn't they have been picked up by now or is that just a hope? He behaves for all except his parents it seems.

I am about to go and get him and I feel really nervous.

It doesn't help that I feel like he is having feelings I had as a child when his life is infinitely better. He has parents for a start.

ASD is autistic spectrum disorder.

To get a dx of ADHD he will need to exhibit the behaviour in more than one setting. With ASD its a bit different as children are often awful at home but seem ok at school.

You would expect to see ASD / ADHD type behaviours before 7 but as many of these behaviours are also present in NT (neurotypical) children then its often not until they reach school age that it becomes apparent that there is a 'problem'.

We knew that ds was lively and challenging from an early age but didn't realise that it was anything out of the ordinary until he started school when his behaviour suddenly went out of control.

Hubby has just told me that ODD is basically our fault and it is up to us to sort it out.

On the way home he was challenging. I was less scared and more matter of fact and firm.

He is okay at the moment.

Well if he has any SN then it certainly isn't your fault. However how you and your partner interact with him is obviously going to have an impact on his behaviour. Whilst there are no right ways of doing things I personally think there are some wrong ones IYKWIM.

There are a variety of different behaviour modification techniques you can use. Lots of books stress the need for praising positives and ignoring negatives but i find that ds reacts best to a strategy that involves encouraging desired behaviour though rewards and praise whilst also allowing for punishment of unwanted/unacceptable behaviour.

When we first saw his paed when he was 4 he gave me a copy of a treatment plan that was designed for use with children with ADHD. It uses a token system whereby the child can earn tokens through doing what is expected e.g. getting ready for school on time; doing homework. They then get to spend these tokens on what they want to do during the day e.g. watch t.v : play computer etc. They can save tokens up for special treats and they can lose tokens for unacceptable behaviour.

Its hard work to put into practice as it requires you as a parent to look hard at how you interact with your child and to make changes where necessary. We found that it was worth the effort though as we quickly saw an improvement in his behaviour at home. It also worked well with dd who is 2 years older and NT. I have a copy of it on the computer and can send you it if you want. Email me on [email protected]

Have just emailed you, thank you.

Reading a little of the info my hubby has found says ODD can be caused by too strict or too lax parenting styles or a mixture of the two. We are both guilty of not being consistent and that is through not knowing what to do, being shattered. etc

He has been different today. Not happy at all that he had to walk the whole way home from school and said he would call me a liar as I said I would always bring the car. I just calmly said I wasn't a liar and we would walk some of the time. He also threatened to throw himself off the bridge on to cars below and it was the awfulest, scariest moment when he tried, 3 times!, to climb up. Both times I said get down! very firmly and he did. I could have grabbed him if he had taken a second step. We, and later DH, have had a calm but firm discussion about not doing it again.

I really want to go and thank him for being better today but not sure if that gives him the power back??? I know it isn't about powere but couldn't think how else to phrase it.

You need to let him know when he has done something well. Its really important. I know sometimes its hard to find something to praise. My Mum is a SENCo and she always says "catch them being good" but thats not always easy. When this happens then you need to encourage the best of the behaviour that they show IYSWIM.

Don't see it as giving him back the power. Its important for his self esteem that you let him know when he's been 'good' and that you are proud of him. Be specific about what it is he has done that you are pleased with and try not to get into a discussion about what he could have done better or what he did wrong.

As for you causing ODD - I somehow doubt that. There are all sorts of theories banded about on the internet and as it is unregulated its hard to know how reliable the info is. Inconsistant discipline will definitely make things worse though as you are sending mixed messages and he will naturally be confused about boundaries. Don't be too hard on yourself - there's no such thing as a perfect parent. I know enough about behaviour management to teach it to others and yet I can assure you I regularly don't get it 'right'.

I have got your email and will send the stuff tomorrow as it is on my other computer.

He just came down for a cuddle and I said we have had a better day today, thank you and off he went to bed. No arguing when I said he couldn't stay up.

Thanks for the info!

That sounds like a good end to the day for him then

I have sent you the stuff now so please let me know if it doesn't come through ok.

I hope he has a good day today.

Hi

Just checked email and it has come through, thank you. I have a head ache at the moment so will wait until the kids have gone to bed and my head is better so I can read it properly. Thanks again.

BTW things have been better in that he hasn't kicked off and when he has been challenging I have managed to cope. Haven't shouted for days!

Thats good news nab My ds has ahd a good day too

Hope your head feels better soon.

Good news for you too!

I wonder if my head aches are due to stress and tiredness. I can barely stay awake at times.