School management of defiance and behaviour issues

[HiImTrying]

Long time lurker, first time poster. It's definitely different knowing what to say this way around.

DS is 6, and is currently undergoing assessment for ADHD and ASD(ASC?).

He has been seen by an educational psychologist last week and a SEN service at school a couple of months ago. Some strategies have been suggested for school management from both and also home management help from Ed Psych. We are also following 123 magic at home.

I am really struggling , especially with my interactions with school. The SENCO has been great at organising these meetings and input but DS class teacher calls or messages me daily to let me know he has not had a good day. Every time it is that he has not been following adult instructions, is refusing to do work and then therefore has to miss time at break and lunch to complete said work in ks2 area (KS2 is used as a punishment as KS1 usually find them intimidating)

He goes to see the deputy head and head teacher almost every day for "bad" behaviour. Last week at parents evening the teacher said , and i quote, "he is really hard work". The only positive that came away was that he understands more math than other subjects.

I appreciate the feedback on his behaviour but how do I detach myself emotionally? DS now says things like "I'm so stupid","I'm really naughty". I can't help but think he just associates school with constant punishment? I do not condone his reported behaviour.

Not sure I need some advice,or an ear.

Hi OP. I don't know where you are with this, but I wanted to reach out as I am in your boat! Did you find a resolution? My DD is 6 so we have been told she cannot get assessed for ADHD. I was recommended 123 magic, how have you found it? MY OH isnt great at reading the books or following the programme and we have a nanny who also is inconsistent in approach - i am riddled with guilt at being a working mum and seeing my dd suffer, but also we need the money...

You haven't said what support they're providing but missing break and intimidation are completely the wrong strategies for ASD. I can't comment on the ADHD side but my ASD DD gets extra movement breaks ( as well as other stuff). It did take a while to figure out what strategies worked ( and a bit of redefining what counted as bad behaviour) but DD is mostly ok now. She has her own behaviour contract that doesn't involve missing break.

IMO this is shocking behaviour from a school towards a child undergoing an assessment for SN, or for any child really. Sending KS1 children to a KS2 area to intimidate them is appalling. Likewise, missing breaks is just completely counter intuitive. If I were you I would be complaining to the SENCO and the head.

Was 123 magic recommended by the EP? I seem to recall it’s quite punitive? That approach doesn’t often work for adhd/asd children.

Missing break and lunch is rubbish treatment for a NT kid, never mind for a ND one.

Hi all,

Sorry unsure how to tag.

Thank you for your replies. It seems like an age since I posted this. Things are still not good, but DS was diagnosed as autistic (with autism? Wording?) 6 weeks ago. So that's the end of that 4 year battle and on to the next chapter.

123 magic, I believe historically, had versions of discipline such as time out step. This latest version doesn't include that and there's research included that suggests these types of methods are counter intuitive so recommend other things instead. We have adapted the approach slightly still within the guidance of the book and found it has been helpful. It was recommended by my paediatrician as the local area do courses on it. I certainly agree it wouldn't be right for everyone.

The problem is, the behaviour policy of the school is that missing breaks and times out of lesson is their disciplinary action for disruptive behaviour, and involving SL team for more serious behaviour. Despite the diagnosis, there have been no changes. And the SENCO/ SL team are onboard with strategy. It is entirely counter productive and my DS self esteem lessens by that day.

Reaching his teacher or the SENCO is almost impossible. In fact in January I emailed the SENCO 3 times over 3 weeks because there was an incident of my DS pushing another child in the playground after they repeatedly shouted at him ( I found this out later). As a result he missed 3 days worth of breaks. Only after 3 weeks did I receive a reply and then another 2 weeks to get a meeting with the teacher an agree a behaviour chart for wanted behaviour, which was suggested by the outreach team and ED last year. They did not implement a single suggestion.

It's not fair to my DS and not fair to other children in his class who's learning is also affected by all of this.

I am so sorry to anyone else going through this

Miss break and lunchtime is counter productive. The school need to make reasonable adjustments, including to the behaviour policy.

What support is the school providing? Have you applied for an EHCNA?

If the SENCO is not replying to you in a timely manner email the HT.

If you find it easier you could request the teacher only emails you rather than calls. It has the benefit of providing a paper trail too.

School arranged the Educational psychologist, and there is an outreach team who did a 5 week programme with DS and 7 others about understanding emotions. The outcome report did agree that DS was beginning to recognise emotions but pictures, but this is something he could already do. It's his emotional regulation that is an issue.

They also referred us to SALT which were are awaiting but there is 6-8 month wait (I'm sure this is the case in most areas and cannot be helped).

I have asked in my previous emails to the SENCO ,a number of times, if the reviews we are having every 6 weeks are working towards requesting a needs assessment, and I have also asked on the advice of the paediatrician to have DS referred to CAMHS for an ADHD assessment, but these questions are continuously avoided.

A good suggestion to ask the teacher to email rather than call. They have messaged a number of times on the class app which I have kept.

You can apply for an EHCNA yourself. On their website ISPEA have a model letter you can use.

If you apply and the LA agree to assess a SALT assessment can be part of the needs assessment without sitting on the normal waiting list.

This is completely untrue. I have a 6 year old who has been assessed and diagnosed. I knew what I was looking at and so drove the process and got school to refer as they couldn’t disagree given they agreed to all the symptoms/diagnostic criteria being present. Most screening tools are only used from 6 so don’t really assess before then. What area are you in (roughly) I’ll do some digging into referral criteria if you like.

Sorry @stopeatingchocolate the post above was in response to your post.

@HiImTrying I’m so sorry school are being so unhelpful. Can you ask for a plan on how they are accommodating your child’s need for movement breaks and sensory needs. I’m appalled at primary schools that have this attitude. Bad enough in secondaries. Ask what accommodations are made. There are resources on classroom accommodations for children with adhd that should be heeded as a minimum.

That's miserable OP.

Punishing a child for lacking the capacity to comply with rules because of their disability is not fair, and is counterproductive and potentially unlawful. Given school isn't being very helpful and poor DC is getting a lot of negative feedback I would push them on this. I'd write to the Head and SEND governor asking for a meeting saying that you are concerned the application of the behaviour policy in this way to your autistic child may constitute unlawful discrimination under the Equality Act 2010 and you need reasonable adjustments to be made to it for your child (have a look at the EHRC guidance for schools on the act - including indirect discrim, discrimination arising from a disability, and failure to make reasonable adjustments?) The Children's Law Centre have some good resources too.

On Magic 123, everyone whose child receives an ADHD diagnosis gets sent here, but at the same time I was told to adopt a low demand approach for autism; wasn't a very coherent combo.

God this is what I fear happening when DS starts school. We're in a nursery version of this now and I can't seem to find a route to changing anything.

So frustrating when, as a parent, you can see it coming but if you try to engage, help, DO anything about it the lines of communication just seem to be cut.

OP, I hope you're able to sort this so your poor DS isn't - essentially - being discriminated against in this way.