After some opinions and some advice please

[nutcracker]

I hope no one minds me posting this here.

I have a thread running in behaviour and development at the mo about ds's behaviour and in particular his taking things so literally and ainability to understand a joke etc.

A few people suggested Aspergers and I had a look at a few sites and recognised alot of things in ds.

I filled in an online check list thing and was hoping someone could have a read through and tell me what they thought.

This is a list of things that I felt did apply to ds, who is 5.

Section 1 - Social Interactions

*Monopolozing the conversation
*Obsessive conversation in one area
*Lacks ability to repair, understand or maintain conversational flow
*Unable to follow rules of game/turn taking
*Has difficulty with winning and losing
*Is unable to select activities that are of interest to others
*Displays narow play and acticity choices
*Does not know how to respond to compliments
*Does not realize that something he says or does can hurt someones feelings
*Lacks awareness if someone appears bored, angry, upset
*Averts eye contact
*Lacks awareness of facial expressions or body language
*Talks on and on about a special interest whilst unaware that the person is no longer paying attention/talks to someone obviously engaged in another activity
*Makes rude comments

Section 2 - Language skills

*Uses conversation to convey facts and info about special interests rather than thoughts, emotions and feelings
*Has difficulty in maintaining a conversation
*Focuses conversations on one narrow topic with too many details given
*Once a discussion starts it is as if there is no stop button (if talking about his fave subject)
*Knows how to greet someone but has no idea of how to continue the conversation and next comment may be one that is totally irrelavent
*Does not make conversation reciprocal, has difficulty with the back and forth aspects of conversation
*Leaves a conversation before it has concluded
*Makes comments that may embarass others
*Interupts others
*Engages in obsessive questioning or talking in one area, lacks interest in the topics of others
*Is unable to make or understand jokes/teasing
*Interprets known words on a literal level
*Has difficulty discriminating between fantasy and fact
*Displays difficulty with volume control of voice
*Has difficulty switching from one channel to another, processing is slow and easily interrupted by any environmental stimulation
*Displays a delay when answering questions

Section 3 - Interests, routines, order

*Has developed narrow and specific interests
*Anxiety, meltdowns - crying, agression, property destruction, screaming
*Non complient behaviours
*Emotional responses out of proportion to situation, responses are tense and tend to be negative

Section 4 - Motor skills

*Difficulty with writing, cutting and coluring skills
*An unusual pencil/pen grasp
*Difficulty applying sufficient pressure when writing drawing or colouring
*Difficulty with independantly seeing sequential steps to complete finished product

Section 5 - Cognitive issues

*Is unaware that others have thoughts, beliefs and desires that influence their behaviour
*Is unaware that people have different viewpoints and intentions from their own and doesn't realise that the listener is having difficulty following the conversation
*Is unaware he can say something that will hurt someone elses feelings
*Is distractable, has difficulty sustaining attention
*Has difficulty with task completion
*Has difficulty with direction following
*Displays infelxible thinking, does not learn from past mistakes
*Uses limited play themes or toys
*Attempts to control aspects of play any atempts to vary the play is met with resistance
*Engages in play that seems imaginary but is often a retelling of a favourite movie/tv show/book
*Focuses on special ineterests such that they dominate play and activity choices
*Uses visual information to help focus attention

Section 6 - Sensory sensitivities

*Avoids eye contact

• Is fearful of some sounds particular objects make ie blender *overreacts to pain

And that is it, thats all of the things that struck a chord with me when reading the lists. There were others that sounded familiar but that I wasn't sure about and so I didn't tick those.

It's a long list isn't it and I am quite shocked at how many boxes i ticked.

Little bump before I go for my bath

Tbh, if he ticks that many boxes i would get him assessed.

Have you spoken to school about your concerns?

Hello nutty.
i have read your other thread, your DS sounds spookily similar to my DS
my DS goes on constantly about star wars with no awareness that the person he is talking at is not interested.
Does he have any issues with food or clothing?
i think talking to the senco would be a good move.

I haven't spoken to the school yet no, have only realised in the last few days that something might not be right.

I'm not actually sure what to say to them. I get so flustered when I try and explain anything about the kids.

He doesn't have any issues wrt clothing no and I would have said no to food too, unless you count the fact that he doesn't liked mixed up food like casseroles, rice mixed with other things. He will eat some but he will pick at the bits. If i try and get him to scoop a spoonful up he won't.

He eats alot better when he has things seperate, on the same plate but not mixed up. He doesn't mind them touching though.

Ive just read your other thread also nutty, i think if i was you i would tell the SENCO exactly what you thinking. If indeed your son does have AS, the reason why is probably fine at school is because the structure of it all probably really helps him.

Our problems are the opposite DD (also 5 btw) is fine at home, but at school shes a nightmare !!.

Thanks, i agree that the structure of school does help him I think.

So, first step is to speak to his teacher then ? and ask her if I can speak to the senco ?

He has 2 teachers, both of which are lovely and think the world of him, they described him as 'their little ray of sunshine' at parents evening.

why don't ypu print off that list and give to the senco, thing is school staff may have noticed things but they also know that it will be difficult to raise concerns with parents if they feel the parents are not aware, if you speak to the staff then they will know that you are aware of some difficulties so will be more open with you.
my DS is funny with clothes, he will only wear short sleeved things and has recently taken to wearing a tie for school, tomorrow he tells me it will be his bow tie!
DS had issues with food no wet food no mixed food and no food touching another food.
for my DS i think he sets up rules in his head on what he is allowed to do/have.
since he moved to his siters SN school in sept the teacher made it a rule that you had to eat your dinner before going out to play, it worked he eats all sorts of things now even gravy.
the thing that works best with my DS is making things rules cos he is a strict rule follower

Good luck with talking to his teacher.

keep us posted how it goes

I wish Ds was a rule follower. He seems to think that rules are just something that people say to him but he doesn't have to stick to.

I will print off the list and take it with me when I speak to his teacher. Will probably hand her the list and then blub LOL.

Thanks for all of the advice, I will keep you posted.

I'm off for a soak now

DD is also not a rule follower, its not even enough to address her by her name. You actually have to go right up to her make sure that you have got her attention.

Agree, take your list to the Senco and ask if he can be observed with it in mind but try to reserve judgement for now and not panic. Just because those traits apply to ASD doesn't mean he has or may have it. They can apply to a number of other overlapping conditions which may or may not prove relevant and may simply need more time to develop. Also you may want to bear in mind that girls can behave quite differently at this age to boys, so having had girls first may mean you have developed certain expectations which he doesn't meet at the moment. good luck

Oh well, my soak ended up as a blub in the bath instead.

oh nutty sorry you are feeling tearful but i am not surprized, it is hard stuff to deal with,
to be honest i don't think that there is anything that my three have done over the years that NT kids don't do (well apart from licking windows maybe) for my lot they don't move on from stuff so well.
plus given that my three all have autism it is all i know as a parent IYKWIM.
you will find all the support you will ever need on here the SN bunch are fab, it won't hurt to get him checked out. do give us a shout or CAT me if you have any other questions or want a natter.
chin up chuck.

oj

Nutty,by all means speak to the SENCO but if I were you I would take my concerns to the GP and ask for a referral for your DS to be assessed. I have 2 DSs with Asperger's. In the case of my youngest DS, who was 6 when dx, the school (both Senco and his teacher at the time) were adamant he was not on the spectrum. It was only after the dx they accepted anything was wrong. School often don't see the problems children with AS display at home, as they struggle to conform. So, certainly discuss your worries with them, but don't rely on them to take it further-and don't let them put you off asking for an assessment either.

Unfortunately it seems that many m/s school staff take it personally when these sort of issues are raised - as if it is about THEM! Obv not all are like that but it seems quite common. I agree that you should also see your GP, do both at once rather than thinking one after the other, it will just waste time.

Nutty,

Just to back up what Tiggiwinkle said. We had no idea about Aspergers and allowed ourselves to be assured there was nothing wrong with our daughter and it was all part of normal development and/or due to her being an only child.

As a result she was 10 before anyone else became concerned and 12 before she was diagnosed.

Do speak to the school, but also talk to your doctor and ask for a referal.

I haven't read all the answers - just the original posts - and wanted to note that my 3 "normal" boys show a number of those things - so I guess much of it is typical of 5-6 year old boys - but it is probably the combination of them that is significant.

Things that struck a cord :

*overreacts to pain
*Attempts to control aspects of play any atempts to vary the play is met with resistance
*Focuses on special ineterests such that they dominate play and activity choices
*Has developed narrow and specific interests
*Anxiety, meltdowns - crying, agression, property destruction, screaming
*Non complient behaviours
*Emotional responses out of proportion to situation, responses are tense and tend to be negative
*Uses conversation to convey facts and info about special interests rather than thoughts, emotions and feelings
*Once a discussion starts it is as if there is no stop button (if talking about his fave subject)
*Interupts others
*Engages in obsessive questioning or talking in one area, lacks interest in the topics of others
*Is unable to make or understand jokes/teasing
*Interprets known words on a literal level
*Displays difficulty with volume control of voice
*Displays narow play and acticity choices
*Talks on and on about a special interest whilst unaware that the person is no longer paying attention/talks to someone obviously engaged in another activity

Wow - makes me realise how difficult it must be being a primary school teacher !

I think that children with ASD/AS do lots of things that NT children do..... but it is the degree to which they do it and that they don't move on. So many times I have heard "but my DS/DD did that...." yes, but my DS who is 12 is STILL doing it!!!

Your ds does sound very similar to my ds2, Nutty but as I have no experience of NT boys I don't know how much of ds2's behaviours are due to his AS or his age etc. The posts on your other thread about your ds taking things so literally was a lot like ds2. "I'm not a star. I'm a boy!" is usually accompanied by either howls of rage or ds2 crumpling up on the floor in tears.

It sounds as though Nutty Jr would get on well with ds2. They could talk at each other for hours about Star Wars, Spiderman etc.

As others have said, it's defininitely worth asking for an assessment and also speaking to the SENCO.

Afternoon

I went to school all ready to sk to speak to his teach after school today but the one he has today and tommorow is off sick, so I will have to wait until he has his other teacher on Wednesday, but thats ok, it gives me a chance to get it clearer in my mind of what I actually want to say.

I spoke to my mum and a neighbour about it today. My mum surprised me with her reaction as she is very much a person who alot of the time thinks that thses labels are given out willy nilly, so I was expecting her to say that I was being ridiculous, but she agreed with me, and we both said, a year ago alot of his behaviours just about fitted in with his age, now they don't. It's basically what you said Davros, yeah he's growing up, but his behaviour is staying the same.

My neighbour has an 18 yr old ds with Aspergers and she agreed that I was concerned enough to take it further and also agreed that some of ds's behaviours did sound like they needed looking at. Her grown up dd is a nursery nurse in the pre school that my ds went to, and she told me that her dd did once say that my ds was really lovely, but he was a bit odd sometimes. Poor woman thought i'd be offended, but I said, no that is exactly what I mean about him.

Your ds and mine would get on like a house on fire I think Coppertop. He just loves nothng more than finding someone willing to sit and listen to him for hours and hours

Just a quick update.

I spoke to ds's teacher and she said that she wished she could record him when he was in class and let me watch it, because he is such a chatty, popular, boy who loves to contribute to anything going on in class and with encouragement always trys to do his best.

She said he definatly does have subjects that he would sit and talk about all day, but he will talk about a wide varity of things in class and interacts really well with all of the other children.

She said that alot of the areas I was concerned about were in her opinion mainly due to his age.

She was really nice and said that she would definatly tell me if she thought there was a need to get him assessed.
She said that I am welcome to go in at any time with any other conceerns and that she will mention what I have said to the senco as she sometimes teaches ds.

I do feel alot happier since I have spoken to her. She has taught all 3 of my children and I do trust her and her opinions, and that she will tell me if she fels things change and he needs any help.