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Autistic spectrum please help?

76 replies

KangaMummy · 28/11/2004 23:32

Please could somebody explain what the symtoms might be to be on the spectrum{hope that is correct phrase}

DS is 9 he has dyspraxia and several other things.

When he had his OT appointment last Friday, he was being very very particular in how he was going to throw the beanbag into the box, how it should be held etc.

I mentioned to OT about autism and she said he is quite pendandic isn't he, but that she didn't have any experience of it. I said that I had wondered because what friends had said and at that point DS said "yes she spends all her time on Mumsnet"

We feel that he also behaves in a very babyish way with friends. Yesterday at the club he was roaring at the other children and they said "DS you are weird".

He used to Roar at everyone years ago but now has started doing it again.

He seems much much more immature than the others in his class.

It is very hard to describe but he just seems different.

He doesn't seem to know how to greet them or behave with them.

Who do we ask the GP to refer him to?

Is it a Psychologist?

We are thinking of going on Friday without DS so we can talk it over because he gets very angry when we mention anything which he sees as personal to anybody else. He gets angry at the first sign of embarresment.

I know nothing about Austism so please could someone give me some tips.

Thanks for getting down this far on my garbelled message

OP posts:
ladyhawk · 02/12/2004 15:35

hi kanga there was an artical i saw about premature babies and autism the adressis
redflagsweekly.com
it talked about cord clamping and the affects of oxygen i think it also had links to other articles.
still cant do links..

Socci · 02/12/2004 16:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ladyhawk · 02/12/2004 16:14

sorry kanga other one didnt work this is it have a look atthis
yeeehaaaaa ive learned how to do a link ....
finally

jakbrown · 02/12/2004 17:07

Oh blimey, just read thread, that's really scary. My DD wasn't premature but she did experience a very high degree of distress, had meconium in the waters with a very long second stage and eventual delivery by ventouse. Midwife said afterwards I was 'lucky' to not have a caesar but I'm wondering if it would have been better for Dd if I did. Sorry to hijack, just interesting...
ps DD 'turned' back to spine DURING labour. Wriggly, even then...

DingDongDinosaurOnHigh · 02/12/2004 17:15

Hello again KangaMummy, sorry not to post more but have a four-month old DS3 and don't get on mumsnet as much as I would like!

I so agree with you about our children seeing things absolutely in black and white. DS1's meltdowns at school are getting less common, but he did have one recently. It was time to put the pencils away, one little girl had her own sparkly pencil which the teacher had said did not have to be put away with the other pencils - DS1 either did not hear her or did not believe her and went mad with her and bit her on the shoulder .

Very interesting about lack of oxygen and autism. DS1 was not premature, but he collapsed when he was born, was out for about ten minutes, had to have three adrenalin shots (the third one intra-cardiac) to bring him round. However I am quite interested by the theory of Charlotte Moore in her brilliant book about her autistic children - which is that perhaps tehre is something about them which makes them not "co-operate" with the birth process - in other words it is their autism which makes them do things like my DS1 did, not the other way round. Very interesting.

coppertop · 02/12/2004 17:34

I quite like Charlotte Moore's theory about autism and birth. Ds1 had a difficult birth - 40 hours, internal monitoring and then got his shoulders stuck. It was as though he was determined to stay where he was. Ds2's birth was shorter (6hrs) and generally more straightforward. I do however remember one of the MWs being shushed by the other for making a comment about how ds2 must be a boy (we didn't know his gender then) as the boys seem to be less co-operative during labour. It could possibly fit in with the male brain theory.

jakbrown · 02/12/2004 19:24

Coppertop, that's interesting. DD had a very 'uncooperative' birth, too. She also found it very hard to breastfeed. She was, said one midwife, 'the most voracious feeder' she had ever seen. Another said she had a high palate. Anybody else find this? Sorry to hijack, Kanga.

KangaSantaMummy · 02/12/2004 19:29

DS didn't have long birth apart from being twin 2 and breech.

He had to have a central line into umbillical cord/belly botton though and did have lots of transfusions.

I am going to write to NNU doctors to ask them about connection.

He was on Oxygen for 3 MONTHS after birth though.

KangaSantaMummy · 02/12/2004 20:09

Although I am sure that DS is on spectrum because of all the stuff I have read.

Is it possible for him to be on the AS with an imagination?????

He does have one

I keep reading that children with autism do not have an imagination

Sorry for keep asking questions but am on a steep learning curve.

coppertop · 02/12/2004 20:38

It's not so much that autistic children have no imagination but more that they find imaginative play difficult to understand. Ds1 is slowly improving in this area. He can now manage a little role play but there needs to be something 'real' there to help him, eg he couldn't pretend that he was holding an invisible sword but could pretend that a cardboard tube was a sword IYSWIM.

Some auties have incredible imaginations. Some of them are able to invent and design their own personal towns (with very complex details of what they would look like) or even entire countries. The detail is truly amazing.

KangaSantaMummy · 02/12/2004 20:50

Thanks CT

Last week DS made a cowboy town with lego, with a jail, sheriff office, statue and fountain, saloon

So I guess that is the 2nd type of autism.

Does it have a name?

KangaSantaMummy · 02/12/2004 20:51

This was not a kit it was imagination IYSWIM

I was getting a bit confused about the whole imagination thing

Thanks

coppertop · 02/12/2004 21:00

I don't really know if it has a specific name tbh. If you google "urville" and "Gilles Trehin" you will see a good example of this. Urville is the name of the imaginary city designed by a man with autism.

One of these days I'll learn how to do links.

blossomgoodwill · 02/12/2004 21:03

ct - I always thought that asd children couldn't pretend that a cardboard tube was a sword. It's a cardboard tube and that's it.
I often feel my dd is on the spectrum kanga but all of the pros say no. She has a language disorder and I know that they do overlap with AS anyway. My dd definitely has autistic traits. It's funny but reading ct's comment about needing a visual to help with play reminds me of dd. Although dd will often pretend to be a monster or say to ds I am the mummy and you are the daddy. Oh I don't know! Like you Kanga I find it all so confusing. Sometimes I feel like I dissect dd too much.

beccaboo · 02/12/2004 21:16

Charlotte Moore (her again!) reckons that you will NEVER see an autistic child pretend that an object is something else - eg. pick up a banana and pretend it's a telephone. Don't know if a doctor would agree with this or if it's her theory. I guess that's the same as what you've just said blossomhill.

Ds, age 3, made a cake out of sticklebricks at nursery yesterday, complete with candles which he then asked everyone to blow out. I was so chuffed!

He had a difficult birth too. 36 hours of labour, meconium in my waters, emergency caesarean. He was quite big - 10lb7oz - and his head never engaged. I've wondered a lot about this too, whether he was starved of oxygen or how much distress he was in. We had problems with feeding at first, he would throw his head from side to side and didn't seem to understand where i was.

coppertop · 02/12/2004 21:19

The cardboard tube thing is a very recent development. I was stunned when ds1 came trotting out of school one afternoon and told me that he'd been playing firefighters and using a skipping rope as a hose. He still has problems imagining other people in different roles though. To him I am always "Mum". I can't join in his game and be a monster etc.

blossomgoodwill · 02/12/2004 21:24

I just remember how the salt said how significant that dd was pretending that the orange crayon was a carrot. She was also spreading sand onto a plastic piece of bread saying that it was butter.

coppertop · 02/12/2004 22:27

Ds1's school have really been working hard at improving his play skills. It's been included as one of his IEP targets. At his CDC assessment he was given a toy cup and a teddy and was asked to give teddy a drink. The report notes that "Ds1 put the cup on the teddy's head and then ignored it."

I think that assessing imaginative play can be an absolute minefield. Ds1 is good at reproducing other children's games. If you didn't look closely and realise that it was a repetitive game that went nowhere you could easily be fooled into thinking he had good play skills.

mikeyjon · 02/12/2004 22:33

my brother s 15 and he has aspergers syndrome and dyspraxia. he is very intelligent but has trouble understanding his school work because of the way the teachers talk. he cant cope with options, sarcasim or irony. he needs to be told exactly what he needs to do which is why he finds english and r.e hard but is great at science and maths. a specialist went into his school to speak to his teachers and gave them some info but they just ignore it. what can you do? have you read the curious incident of the dog in the nighttime? (or something close to that) it explains alot about the way an aspergers mind works.

JaysMum · 02/12/2004 23:03

Kanga,

Noticed that you have put that your son roars and then doesn't remember doing it - my J does this all the time , he also squeals at people and has no idea that he does it. You can imagine the looks I get in Sainsbury's!!

Our SALT told us that he does this to create a white noise which blocks out other vestibular sounds. I know that when I am concentrating on the computer I hum really loudly to block out all other noise - this is my tatic for staying focused.

I also think that imagination is one area in which none of the professionals are really quite clear about.

A cardboard tube couldn't possibly be anything other than a cardboard tube in our house. But if I cut it into two, sellotaped it together and added a piece of string it then becomes a pair of binoculars. It doesnt look like a cardboard tube anymore - it looks like binoculars so therefore it is a pair of binoculars that don't work!!!!!

J can not play a game of make believe - why would Mum want to be a monster - monsters are not real - Mum is real. He can however play a game with his beanies where he will act out scenes that he has seen on the TV or play with his cars in the same way as he has seen in his favourite film, the sixties version of Gone in 60 seconds. All the speech he uses is just repeated from what he has heard.

KangaSantaMummy · 02/12/2004 23:14

Should I stop him or not?

What do I say to the other parents?

He also plays a game in his room that we do not really understand

he says he has a helmet on with a visor over his eyes and he jumps or stamps around his room

He does it if he is frustrated but also as a game.

It makes him happy

so we don't try to stop him at times he doesn't remember what he has done but at others he says he does.

I know that doesn't make sense because it doesn't make sense to us really either.

KangaSantaMummy · 02/12/2004 23:15

earlier I was told that if I STOPPED THAT THEN ANnother one would appear

JaysMum · 02/12/2004 23:28

I don't know - Im only a Mum!!!

I never stop J from doing something if its making him happy - the raoring and squealing is a part of him that I am so used to I dont even notice it that much now!

J plays some of the most bizzarre games in his room - I just let him get on with it - what makes him feel happy is OK by me so long as he's not hurting himself or anyone else.J does tend to retreat to his room a lot lately and he jumps around and makes all sorts of weird and wonderful noises whilst in there. I think his room is his safe place where he can be who he is without anyone else interferring.

JaysMum · 02/12/2004 23:34

Would also agree that as a ASD parent you constantly beat one thing only to have something else raise its head.

J was obssessed with pencil sharpeners - no pencil sharpener in his pocket - no J. Worked out he was using the sharpener as a coping strategy at school. He has specific learning difficulties and writing is almost impossible for J. So he would sit and sharpen his pencil till the point was so sharp, that the minute it touched the paper it broke and would then need sharpening again. But everytime we went out we where buying him pencil sharpeners. Pencil sharpener for not wetting the bed - pencil sharpener for playing nicely - we felt like we were feeding his obsession. So we stopped - took all the sharpeners and threw them away.....next day we were onto erasers!!!!!

KangaSantaMummy · 02/12/2004 23:35

do you think that this whatever it is that he does in there is significant

He would get so cross if he knew I was telling anyone though

So how to tell the pead I guess I could write it down but I don't know what it is really.

we wondered if it was an absence thing as he had a seizure/faint at school a few weeks ago

Is J a high spectrum Autistic?

DS prob is I think

he has dyspraxia and language delay response something