Autistic spectrum please help?

[KangaMummy]

Please could somebody explain what the symtoms might be to be on the spectrum{hope that is correct phrase}

DS is 9 he has dyspraxia and several other things.

When he had his OT appointment last Friday, he was being very very particular in how he was going to throw the beanbag into the box, how it should be held etc.

I mentioned to OT about autism and she said he is quite pendandic isn't he, but that she didn't have any experience of it. I said that I had wondered because what friends had said and at that point DS said "yes she spends all her time on Mumsnet"

We feel that he also behaves in a very babyish way with friends. Yesterday at the club he was roaring at the other children and they said "DS you are weird".

He used to Roar at everyone years ago but now has started doing it again.

He seems much much more immature than the others in his class.

It is very hard to describe but he just seems different.

He doesn't seem to know how to greet them or behave with them.

Who do we ask the GP to refer him to?

Is it a Psychologist?

We are thinking of going on Friday without DS so we can talk it over because he gets very angry when we mention anything which he sees as personal to anybody else. He gets angry at the first sign of embarresment.

I know nothing about Austism so please could someone give me some tips.

Thanks for getting down this far on my garbelled message

kanga - don't know a great deal about this - but thought I would try to answer your post until tomorrow when someone who knows what they are talking about comes on:-

you might find it useful to have a look at www.nas.org.uk// for more info on autistic spectrum disorders.

also from what I have read about dyspraxia, that can include a certain degree of difficulties in social skills as well as difficulty with motor skills

hth for the time being

kangam, as a place to start, try the childbrain assessment quiz - gives a good picture of what the typical issues are

As DS is 9 go to your school health service you might get on quicker this way,

Autism and ASD are very complicated and you will need to find someone who knows what they are talking about, the sooner the better if it is one of these

Generally there is a triad of impairments in...
socialisation - friends, social rules, behaviour etc
communication - understanding, speech, conversational rules etc
imagination - sympathy, empathy, usderstanding games / stories etc

there are loads more and impairment doesn't have to show up in everything, just one or two

The national autistic society are the best people to help, and for additional support try parent partnership project, sorry do not have a link to these but you should be able to find one local to you if you do a search.

hope this helps

Hi Kanga,

Im pretty sure Dyspraxia is on the ASD spectrum anyway!!!!
My J has dyspraxia, dyslexia , ADD and possible Aspergers.
A good book to get your hands on is the Tony Attwood book called Understanding Aspergers. If I was you I would go to your local library and pick up a few books about Autism and then start reading.
If you want further info contact NAS or go and see your GP and ask to be referred to a Paed. They will then put you in touch with people who know about ASD.
Dyspraxia has a lot of common traits that are similar to ASD - they all do tend to overlap.
Blossomhill sent me a questionnaire for PDD assessment - which also covers ASD - if you read this Blossom can you link that page to this thread?

Sorry Im not offering any further info that hasnt all ready been suggested.
Thinking of you.

Ohh silly me!!!!

The PDD assessment is the same one Binkie has posted - do it and see what your score says. I would look at the how to score part to give you some idea of how to score your childs responses.

Good luck.

hi kangamummy,your gp can refer him to local child development clinic they will ask about his early development when my ds was there they refered him to child psychologist,also the school couldask the educational psychologist to see him, is he coping at school?the education board have a ASD support worker,sorry my reply is a bit garbled my ds2 was dx in p1 .the national autistic society is a good source of info their adress is www.nas.org.uk sorry cant do links they also have a freefone helpline 08450704004 or [email protected] .they will also give you ohone number of local support group which will be able to give you advice.with us ds2 had development delay speech and language difficulties although not sure if this is always the case,he has social interaction problems,shouts and screams his reactions to simple everyday situations that he cant understand are extreme,his brothers think he is weird we knew there was something different about him he wasdx at four now he is eightand a real character.hth im sure there will be others on with advice for you soon xxxxx

The childbrain assessment/quiz can be a good start in finding out if there might be a problem. I don't have any experience of dyspraxia but AFAIK it can often overlap with ASD/AS.

My eldest is only 4yrs old but some of the signs that we've experienced are things like:

• Late to talk (although with AS they may talk early or at the usual time). Speech may often seem stilted or odd with a monotonous voice. Ds1 went through a long stage of sounding like a dalek or a robot. The words used may also seem a little formal or unusual.

• Not knowing instinctively what is expected in social occasions (although bear in mind that we all still need to learn those things to a certain extent). Not understanding the unwritten rules of social interaction or even things like giving someone else a chance to speak. In conversation they may take things a little too literally. The most recent example in our house was when I made a comment about ds1 having his nose buried in a book. He went from shock to hysterical fits of laughter.

• Always wanting to play games in a certain way - and heaven help the child who tries to change the rules of the game and steer it into a different direction! Lots of repetitive play.

• In ds1's case a strong sense of right and wrong. There are no grey areas. Everything is black and white.

• Sensory issues. Both ds1 and ds2 have hypersensitive hearing. Ds1 feels little or no pain in his body but hates light touch. Ds2 hates wearing clothes. Ds1 hates his hands getting dirty. Ds2 likes to smear stuff everywhere. Both like to look at things from odd angles. Both hate crowds and bright lights.

Does any of this sound familiar?

Socci and coppertop (and dinosaur when she comes on here) are better to ask than me- I have very limited experience of high functioning autism. Dyspraxia does overlap in many ways- and immaturity often goes with dyspraxia.

Multicoloured Mayhem by Jax Jackson could be a good read for you. She has a son with dyspraxia, a son with AS, a son with ADHD and a son with autism. It's a good way to pick up the similarities and differences. Certainly Mat (her son with dyspraxia) has quite significant difficulties from the dyspraxia alone.

Madelaine Portwood's book "developmental dyspraxia" is an absolute must read as well- she talks a lot about the extent that dyspraxia can affect someone.

wow thanks for all the replies

I have done the test really quickley and the score is 91 so mildly scored.

I have to go out in a mo but just wanted to thank everyone for their help.

will be back later to research links etc.

Mumsnet is so brill

kanga my ds2 has ADHD this was dx firstthe dx for ASD and DYSPRAXIA came a bit later these do overlap a lot and its hard to find a defining line ,i found a questionaire that C DC paed gave us to fill out there were about 80 questions on it herre are some
does not know how to make friends
does not seem to listen to what is being said
has difficulty organising tasks and activities
loses temper
touchy or easily annoyed by others,
demands must be met immediatly-easily frustrated hope this has ritualsthat he /she must go through
gets upset if someone rearranges his/her things
temper outbursts
has difficulty waiting in line or waiting turn in games
has trouble concentrating in class
fails to finish things he /she has started
hard to control in shopping centres
afraid of new situations
runs about or climbs excessivly in situations where it is not safe to do so
feels inferior to others
we had to rate these from not true pretty much or very much hope this helps to sort of give you an idea of what to look out for,although that said each child is different and some symptoms are more subtle than othersxxxxx

Hello there,

DS1 is aged five and was diagnosed when he was 3.5 years old.

I would say that his principal characteristic is his need for control. He always reminds me of something that an adult with Asperger's Syndrome said on a television programme "Other people are okay as long as they do what I want them to." That's DS1! He is totally obsessive about "the rules" as he perceives them. He is gradually learning more about how to relate to others, how to share etc, but the pont is that it very much has to be learnt - it doesn't come instinctively to him.

His language skills are about what you would expect for a five year old, but it often doesn't occur to him to use his language to actually communicate. It just doesn't dawn on him to tell me things. He has no "small talk" (unlike my DS2, aged three, who just instinctively knows how to start a conversation).

Deos any of that ring bells?

Thanks for all that help.

Yes several of those things are DS

Today the SALT went to see him in school and then we had meeting with her and head teacher.

SALT says she thinks he has a delay in recorded vocab he thinks for very long time before speaking etc.

We mentioned Autism and so she is going to refer him to Paed for a complete assessment of dyspraxia autism and etc etc.

The ED PSYCH is visiting the school in new year for another child so HEAD is going to mention it to him then.

SALT is going to visit him in school for further treatment but that will be a long waiting list wait.

What we don't understand is that she said because he is in school already BUT does that mean he has to wait longer or not as long????

One thing he does keep doing is ROARING at the other children

How do we stop him?

This morning he shouted something at one boy in front of other parents and they looked at him and at each other like he was VERY WEIRD.

I didn't hear him but it was obviously inappropiate.

What can we do????

Also some of his classmates were playing football where they are not allowed to and he wanted to get out the car to tell them off. I stopped him but he said he was going to tell on them to the teacher.

This would make him very unpopular but he couldn't see why I was saying he shouldn't

he said if they are doing something wrong then HE should tell.

Which of course is true but it will get him into trouble with the other children.

What do I do?

bumpity bump

hi there very glad to hear that you are getting referal to Paed our ds2 had SALT there was a waiting list but he was given a block of 8 weekly sessions then a break then another block maybe she meant a wait for an opening.
I know what you mean about inappropriate behaviour its very difficult our son has no idea that his behaviour is in any way odd we have not found a way to stop some of them the asd support worker has told us that we are to be careful what we try to change as often they will just replace it with something else /maybe worse .We have been told what doesnt drive us nuts we are to ignore.tbh tere are days when everything he does drives me nuts(such a terrible mum).ASD kids see things in black and white there are no grey areas so for him to tell is the right thing to do he will not be thinking of how the other kids will react or if he will get into trouble.Its hard for other people to understand their inappropriate behaviour we also have had the *looks i try not to let it get to me now.sorry not much help just wanted you to know i can sympathise with you xxxx

Thanks ladyhawk,

No one has actually said it is deffo Autism

He had the dyspraxia dx several months ago,

It is just that this behaviour and several other things are making DH and I think of Autism

We were told yesterday that SALT and Paed don't like labels But his Head teacher said he needs a label to be able to get help.

I am not sure what other mumsnetters think of labels but we would like a label so that the other parents can sort of understand why he is doing these things.

I said to him this morning to try to go up to the other children and smile and say hello, he says you don't have to tell me I do that already!!!! And was angry with me.

He had no recollection of the roaring that happened on Saturday.

hi we were told that to about labels i dont know about others but i felt that he was being labled already'difficult' 'dispuptive''troublemaker'etc we would rather he was labeled adhd asd than that .Also we needed to know for ourselves so we could better understsnd our son and his needs.Labels are sadly necessary for the kids to get the help they needxxx

I am sure that the other parents have labelled him weird already.

So I think yes I would prefer Dyspraxia and ASD

Does it sound like he is on the ASD to you?????

hi... i think its quite possible ,we were told ds2 dyspraxia was part of his ASD,i think you should trust your own instincts as you know him better than anyone..we have been told by the school that they are worried about ds3 they feel he is on the spectrum as well,while ds2 is at one end ds3 is more likely at the other endIYKWIM.
We found that the more we read we were able to say yes thats our ds,ask paed loads of questions ,mention anything you have noticed strange about his behaviour,everything.hthxxxxx

Ds1 is always trying to police other children and hates rules to be broken. This is getting to be a bit of a problem as he will sometimes physically push a child away from whatever they're doing wrong or scream at them. I'm hoping that the SALT or the SENCO will have a few ideas. In ds1's case Social Stories might help but I'll see what the SALT suggests.

It's just a thought but ifyour ds doesn't remember roaring at other children is it possible that this is something he does without being aware of it or maybe as a kind of stim? Could it be that his roaring noise helps to block something out for him? Maybe stress at aeeing/meeting other people or a noise that they make?

His dyspraxia is quite physical IYSWIM

CT what you say about roaring is interesting will have a think about that.

Mrs F was going to send me a sample of social stories but haven't seen her around much lately.

I am a bit confused at the difference between asbergers and Autism and ASD.

And trying to decide which he is.

How do you help them to cope with life and school etc????

hi kanga my ds2 is 8 so not much differences im sure we could probably share stories tips etc.MY ds dyspraxia is very bad as well.Has he any particular difficulties that you want to talk about?or that we can help you withxxxx

Kangamummy, I was really confused about the difference between all the terms too (and still am!). ASD stands for Autistic Spectrum Disorder, so that means any developmental problem that is considered to be on the autistic spectrum. It covers a massive range, from severely autistic to milder conditions - some people think that eg. dyslexia, dyspraxia, semantic pragmatic disorder, are forms of autism.

I think it used to be that Aspergers was considered a separate condition, but many experts now seem to think that there's not much difference between High Functioning Autism (HFA) and Aspergers Syndrome(AS). Children with AS seem to have less problems with speech, eg. they usually start talking at the normal time and have good speech, although their language/ communication is normally impaired, so they can have problems with body language, two-way conversation etc. Hope that helps a bit.

Does anybody know if there is a link between being very premature {27 weeks} being on oxygen and Autism?