Violence when having outburst.

[purpleme12]

My child is 8
Has been referred by school for autism but I think that's because of problems with behaviour at home.
I'm not convinced about autism but her dad has ADHD so...
But she can be violent to me when she's having these outbursts when she's angry, she can't control/calm herself down, I have to do it for her. She sometimes hits me and bites me.
Someone when hearing this suggested the 'parent in charge' course for having confidence for putting consequences/boundaries in?
But I don't think it's a confidence thing or a consequence thing. I'm not afraid of that. But consequences don't work. I can give them but it still will happen because she can't control it.
I mean she also bites herself as well. She can sometimes hit her head back against the wall when she's angry (a relatively new behaviour).
Does anyone else have this? Do some children do this even if you give consequences etc?

I don't mind doing the course if it's about more than that.
Has anyone done this course?

I haven't done that course but I know when ds gets to the stage of his behaviour being violent consequences wouldn't do anything and would actually make the situation worse. By the time he's at that stage he is beyond being able to listen and take in new information.

You are most definitely not alone. There is a very good Facebook group run by Yvonne Newbold. Newbold hope, there is a public page which had videos about how to deescalate and there is a private family support group which you have to apply to be in. She also does talks/seminars on this subject.

For us it's all about adapting so that ds doesn't get so overwhelmed that he becomes violent or self harms. we look at triggers and try and avoid them where possible. If he does get out of control it's about making sure everyone is safe and reducing sensory stimulus as much as possible.

I completely agree with liv. When it gets to that stage it’s too late to ‘teach’ anything. When my ds gets to this stage consequences just enrage him more.

The work needs to be done outside of the meltdowns, teaching skills, avoiding triggers (not always possible, depending on what it is), and it can take a long time. I’d be wary of any course that isn’t specifically designed for parents of neurodiverse children if it’s likely that she has either ASD or ADHD.

Oh really?
I'm not sure whether she does have ASD or ADHD
Do you think the course wouldn't be good if she did have it?

With the consequence thing, I guess I was more thinking of after the event, giving a consequence because she's been violent. But that doesn't make her stop next time. Because she has real trouble controlling it

If she has trouble controlling it then giving her a consequence isn’t helping her learn self control, it’s just a punishment.

I had a look at the course, it doesn’t say anything about what sort of techniques that it uses so it’s impossible to say.

Right ok that's interesting to hear.
I also think we need to concentrate on the control side of it yes.
I'm not sure whether to do it or not now

Do other children without SEN have this problem?
Where they quite literally can't control themselves sometimes?
I do believe this is the case. She can't at the minute.

Often kids that react in such an extreme way under stress feel a huge amount of shame about what has happened. So like open days if it's a punishment it can make the feeling of shame greater for the child.

I only have experience of my own kids when it comes to meltdowns so I don't know if neurotypical kids can have meltdowns like this but there are definite differences between my two. So when NT dd (6) has one, even at it's peak, I can still reason with her and she can understand what I am saying. She can sometimes lash out if she's really angry but would immediately apologise and she has never self harmed.

With autistic ds it's a different story, by the point that he gets to violent behaviour, there is no control, his eyes are full of fear/panic and he cannot take in any kind of verbal information. He goes into full fight or flight mode and it takes him hours to wind down afterwards. I will also find for up to several days afterwards he's very easily disregulated and it takes a lot of energy for him to keep calm.

I guess really she does it to herself as well as in she bites herself, she hits her head against wall sometimes. When she's angry. Not all the time.
At the same time she'll say help me sometimes (help me calm down)

Someone asked her if she had tantrums (who perhaps I don't think understands?) Because I wouldn't refer to these as tantrums.
To me, tantrums is something younger children have, when upset, naughty or whatever the right word is.
To me, this doesn't fit in with the word 'tantrum' at this age and when I believe she genuinely has trouble controlling it

Today she threw water over my phone.
And said she's going to get a knife to cut her finger off, she went to get the knife. Of course she was never going to cut her finger off it's her anger but it's so extreme.
This was because she was getting frustrated with the duct tape