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8 replies

clarisa · 10/01/2008 14:57

Hi, and thank you for taking the time to read this!! My son is 9 and is at last (after a long wait) going through the process of diagnosis for autism. He has been seen by paed's, ot's, spch th, etc etc and after a lot of pushing has eventually been accepted for the diagnosis stages. At the moment he is in mainstream primary, and has a full-time one-one,(which has very recently changed to a new person). I feel the school are very supportive in some ways (eg supplying a one-one, and keeping me up-to-date on the goings on) but not in others. A lot of problems are happening at the moment, but they never seem to look at the 'core' problem that instigated it in the first instance. eg: he has very poor balance, motor perception of which they are aware as he has had a diagnosis of 'damp' syndrome..... yet they try and get him to participate in gymnastics (of which he finds humiliating as he can't do things other children find simple....rolly pollys etc). So he has to sit dressed in gym kit and watch the class do these things, knowing he can't...... which obviously frustrates him. To me the simplest solution would be his one - one do something different with him when the class do gymnastics???? is this too much to ask???? well it seems it is. This hapened yesterday, he was asked if he wanted to join in, which he declined....so was told ok you don't have to. He took himself off and started getting changed back into his school clothes back in his classroom. his one-one approached his teacher to ask if she had let him leave the room, and was told no, so one-one went looking for him. (where was she when he left the hall?????) found him in classroom attempting to get changed (of which again he finds very difficult and time consuming) and told him to return to hall. He refused as he was getting dressed, so one-one got teacher who got him back in hall. To him he logically thought I have been told I do not have to participate so why am I in gym clothes????. In there eyes this was wrong.

Obviously this upset him, he returned to hall. Fell out with his one and only friend, as he was trying to console him but my son needed his space. This went on for a while...... I was informed him and his friend got back to class quickly and by the time his one-one and teacher had returned he was holding scissors asking his friend to leave him alone or else he would stab him.

I appologised sincerely to his mum (who I look at as a friend), and she has reasurred me not to worry. I have explained over and over to my son that this is totally unacceptable, and he understands totally now.but said he couldnt get him to leave him alone.

I am sure this will not happen again, but still put part blame on the situation before....does anyone agree with me???/ have any suggestions on what to do next. I feel like removing him from school and home tutoring (even though I have an 18mth at home and it would be very difficult)

OP posts:
sarah573 · 10/01/2008 15:14

Hi Clarisa, welcome to MN and the SN board!

My son is also 9 with Aspergers. He's in a mainstream school. He's HF and has good self help skills (ie he can dress himself well) but I can still imagine him acting in pretty much the same way as your son in this situation.

Does your son have a statement? I presume so if he has full time 1:1??

I think you need to go and speak with the school about the gym issue. Clearly it is not in your sons interest to join in with gym if it is upsetting him so much. Surely it would be better for him to do something with his 1:1, that would benefit him. My DS cannot cope with assembly and he spends the time with his 1:1 (who is with him for 2 hours aday) learning social and anger management skills.

Your sons decision to get dressed was very reasonable - why be in your gym clothes if you are not doing gym, a perfectly normal response for an autistic child. I think the school handled it poorly, a child with a full time 1:1 should never have been allowed to get into the position where he was threatening another with scissors.

2shoes · 10/01/2008 15:30

Hello and welcome

aquariusmum · 10/01/2008 16:14

It's nonsense for you child to be taken to gym when he has a disability that means he can't join in - of course the 1-to-1 should be taking him off to access the physical education curriculum in other ways, even if it's just a walk in playground. This sounds to me like they all just want a coffee break amd that's why she wasn't there to see what happened. I must admit though that I would take the scissors thing very seriously, which I'm sure you are, and you mention you've made it totally clear to him. My ABA tutors would say that you should consider using some kind of sanction for this behaviour (like no Nintendo or gameboy or whatever) plus giving him a replacement behaviour for next time he feels like this? It might be "Go Away now please, I really need to be alone but I'll talk to you later". I know not everyone agrees with it, but we used aversive therapy (hairwash, which he hates) to stop my DS resorting to aggression when frustrated. It worked because he now associates any kind of aggression with a bad result, and so even in the heat of the moment we have hopefully retrained his instincts a bit. I do feel for you and know a bit of what you're going through, as my DS has just started mainstream and the teacher is bitching about him being figetty in storytime - which is not that surprising since he won't understand the story at all as hasn't yet got the vocuabluarly. Yet she doesn't seem to want to implement my (in my view perfectly sensible) suggestion of taking him and the non English speaking kids off with the 1-to-1 for a simpler story like Spot. Is it that they want everyone to be doing the same thing? Or is it their convenience? Maybe there's a teacher on here who can shed some light? Good luck anyway!

clarisa · 10/01/2008 17:19

thank you for replying to my post.

In answer to question from sarah573 (does your son have a statement??) No he has no statement as yet, I have enquired about this from county hall and have all necessary paperwork. I asked for a meeting with senco at school to discuss this and advise her on what I was doing and was advised to hang fire until diagnosis meeting in feb....so this I have done up until now, I am now not so sure I should have waited????? I am extremley worried about him going to secondary mainstream as I do not feel he will be able to cope with all different aspects and after talking to the senco she also has her doubts. I want to do best for my beautiful boy, and am not sure which way to turn.

OP posts:
dgeorgea · 10/01/2008 19:04

Without knowing the arrangements it is hard to say whether the 1:1 was right in not being there.

For instance do they cover meal times and breaks with your child? If so they are entitled to their own breaks during the day. This means for parts of some lessons your child may not have their regular 1:1 or may not have additional support at all during this time.

As your child does not have a statement the amount of support he is getting well above what is provided for and being paid for by the school. So yes the school has been very good with this.

There is a huge danger in supporting your childs 'logic' on this. Yes it does sound reasonable. It is this logic and reasonableness which could lead him to excluding himself from the curriculum and socially.

Would you for instance support this type of logic if the class went out in the afternoon and on the way back to school in time to be picked up he decides their path takes him nearer to where you live and decides it makes more sense to go straight home without telling anyone?

What ever the reasoning he removed himself from class without telling anyone. This was wrong. As a parent of a child with Aspergers I would fully support what happened.

As for what occurred in the classroom again without knowing the details I would not be quick to blame the 1:1 for this either. Again if the two boys rushed off they are in the wrong. However unless you wish to put your child in a harness or collar and have them on a lead there will be times when a child gets away from the 1:1. It may not even be necessary for the child to get away from the 1:1, things can happen very quickly.

Obviously I don't know what has been disclosed to his peers, though it may be worth considering if this has not already happened. I know this raises the possibility of bullying, but I do believe children are far more accepting then many adults when they understand what is happening.

If he does have autism then leaving him alone when he is upset is important. This can be easily explained to his class mates.

I do understand the SENCOs view point in waiting for diagnosis. The school is already going well above what is reasonably expected, and without a statement at their own expense. With the diagnosis the statement can be more centred on his needs.

This may sound awful, but to be truthful as I see it it was a minor incident, with a serious threat involved. With some autistic children it would have ended up with an assault on the other child. But it does put this into perspective. Unless your child is openly violent to others.

It does possibly leave some questions, ie when is he supported, the possibility of introducing a system where he can self time out and importantly if it is not sorted out yet where his 'safe' area is.

You say he has a new 1:1. I can recommend a good TA forum where they can ask questions and get to understand what is involved in supporting sn students with various needs.

Invariably schools will always concentrate on the consequences first. It is not always obvious what the root cause is. This is why it is important that we work in partnership with schools. I always seperate the two. Yes the consequences have to be dealt with first. Then I will discuss what the cause was and look at how to reduce possible occurences. Sadly the way most schools seem to operate if you try to tackle the two at the same time they think you are trying to dismiss the consequences.

I wish I could tell you it gets better. Last year I was told our daughters class had been told to wait outside the classroom. The teacher went off, came back and told them to follow her. Daughter did not hear her so stayed outside the classroom and watched the rest of the class walk off. In the end she went to the SEN department who went in search for the teacher. She had still not realised our daughter was not with them. This was the same form teacher she had had for three years. On that occassion as the school was aware of what had happened and had dealt with it I didn't kick up a fuss.

clarisa · 30/01/2008 13:30

Thank you all for your thoughts, ideas etc... all taken onboard!!!

Just to keep you in picture, ds has now had 3 exclusions, all due to lack of understanding etc etc. I have just had an eye opener of a meeting with head,classroom teacher, but one-one couldnt make??? (as due back today...but I am not taking him back) I took along a fantastic lady from Parent Partnership (FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE OFFERED THIS, DO SO!!). As many of you may already be aware, they can offer a trained volunteer (Independent Parental Supporter) to support you personally in a variey of ways in discussing and considering your childs needs.

Well, opened quite a few alarming things that are/ or not as the case may be happening in class. Certain proffessional people had put in there ideas and stratagies to help ds, and these have gradually all been taken away????( all due to not having a diagnosis yet!!!) Eg visual timetable/ own area/ reward system/ Approach/ timeout/ Alert Alert 'Scaffolding removed'. They thought he was coping and "didnt need to be different from any other child in class". So quite frankly I blew my lid!!! Also I was advised that for social reasons ALL children change desks quite frequently, well you can just imagine my thoughts there.

We have the long awaited meeting next week where all pro's and I discuss and come to a diagnosis/plan of action for ds needs. For all you out there that are just beginning the process, keep a strong head on those shoulders, I know its easy to feel you are on your own, but believe me, there are lots of other people out there with the same difficulties you are facing.

I went along with a friend (after a lot of persuation)to a group meeting for parents with autistic children/awaiting diagnosis...... and it is one of the best things I have done, just like on here, you can air your thoughts, problems and concerns......and low and behold, someone else has been through it, and there are windows that will open, and light at the other end.xx

By the way have been advised to seek support from GP to sign ds off school as he is unfit to attend.......due to all this exclusion,lack of understading and support from the school ds comes up with things like.......if I stab myself, I can have time off school because I am ill, if I bang my head harder on the wall/desk I will get a headache and will not need to go to school. I hate school and I hate you (me) for taking me. So have to go and see her this afternoon. I am going to stand firm, I am not going to compromise anymore, he has missed nearly 2 years of the provided curriculum due to there lack of awareness,understanding and support.

Will keep you all updated, as and when things happen!! Again many thanks for all the support and advice and again like I said all has been taken onboard xxx

bye for now clarissa xx

OP posts:
TallulahToo · 30/01/2008 22:46

Hi Clarisa,

I'm reasonably new to mumsnet with a 7yr old DS1 who sounds so much like yours.

Sounds like you're a way ahead of us with sorting out a formal plan with school.

So I just wanted to say good luck & well done for sticking to your guns. Really hope they sit up and listen now. It might be that the teachers really need to be taught about ASD and sounds like you're the one to do it! BIG HUGS!

dgeorgea · 31/01/2008 10:42

Hi Clarisa, (sorry for the long post)

Does the school accept he is likely to fit an ASD diagnosis?

If they do they are leaving themselves open to a lot of trouble.

The strategies you have mentioned are all established practices which are known to work well for ASD students. If these were working and have been removed and he is now not coping, then that says it all realy.

If he has ASD then constantly changing desks and routines would just make it harder for him to cope. Especially if he is not being warned of changes beforehand.

Changing desk regularly may sound good to the school, however they have been advised differently for your son, had implemented it? then dropped it. If they were held accountable for this against the sen code of practice

This is a monster document and can be difficult to understand. the parents guide is a much friendlier document with some advice.

Another bit of reading you might be interested in reading is the disability discrimination act particularly how it effects education. This is a section on teachernet and not the act itself

As I said at the beginning of the post, if they accept that he probably has ASD then they have left themselves wide open. The better you understand the issues the more able you will be in advocating for him. As you've said parent partnership are good for offering practical support.

To give you some idea

'More recently, the DDA 2005 introduced a duty on all public bodies, including schools and local authorities, to promote equality of opportunity for all disabled people. The Disability Equality Duty will have an important part to play in helping schools and local authorities to meet the three sets of duties above.'

By removing the strategies put in place to enable your son to access the curriculum and not replacing them they are directly discriminating against him, evidenced by 3 exclusion in 20 day? (did I read that part right?)

Treating people equally is not the same as treating them the same! It is about actively finding out about individual needs and meeting those needs to allow equal access and opportunities.

Many schools seem to count on the parents ignorance to not meet their legal obligations.

Good luck

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