Makaton - don't know where to start!

[milge]

My dd(2) is autistic and has started creating her own very basic sign language that only I understand helpful! and my SNHV has recommended that i "investigate" Makaton as it might help her communicate with others and can be used in special needs units/schools etc. Am completely ignorant of it, and was unimpressed that HV expected me to sort it out myself with no guidance at all. Anyone got any ideas where i start? thought HV's were meant to be useful? hate them! TIA

Hi Milge, I only know a very little bit about Makaton, as we're just starting to learn some signs (dd's a bit young still, but they use it at her playgroup). Have you seen the Makaton website?

makaton

Also, there's a fantastic nursery rhymes vid with Dave Benson Phillips on Amazon:

amazon

HTH - IKWYM about HVs!!!

Well even if you do have your own signs as long as you then teach those signs to her other main careres etc that's okay. I use Makaton and copy out the key ones from the book, showing a diagram of the sign for her teachers, grandparents, godparents etc.
If you want to email me and send me your adress I can photocopy the makaton signs i have and send them to you.

Also you might want to talk pecs with Blossomhill, JimJams, Davros, RexnBen etc

I'm sure it was on the Makaton website but I can only give praise to the Something Special programs that have been on CBeebies in the past. I taped them and we use them all the time.
I believe there are new programs going out on BBC2 Learning Zone at 2am-4am on Saturday 4th and Sun 5th Dec. It is certainly worth your while taping them to have a look. It won't cost anything & at least you can have a look to see if it would be suitable for your dd.
DD is 3 and has DS, she has a good signing vocab. of about 150 words now and after watching these programs that is probably out of date, she knows much more than me now!
Good luck.

Makaton is great and was certainly THE thing that got DS attempting to vocalise. If your child is going to speak it will be the best choice, although I would advise consulting a speech therapist and having training. However, if your child doesn't develop speech you may find PECs more useful as its so visual and is a door into reading. We have used both with some success but have decided to concentrate on PECs now as DS is NEVER going to speak (IMO) and may well be able to learn to read which gives an in to using a computer, communicaiton device etc. THe prob with signing is that its done and its gone, I have also found that DS's repertoire of signs has never really developed, its core and not anything near conversational. With PECs the word or sentence is still there and can be understood by anyone BUT its quite cumbersome and labour intensive......

Thanks for all this, Davros, what is PEC's, as this may be more appropriate for my dd as she says not a thing- only know what she sounds like from her crying all the time! thanks

Sorry to piggyback on your thread, milge, but I was wondering whether the pocket book of signs on the makaton website were "good enough" for teaching signs to a baby? I know the theory of babysigning, so I don't want a how to, but would like to use Makaton so ds2 would see it on CBeebies too - but balk a bit at the 22 quid for the full-size book.

georgina - we used those books with dd1 - who has down syndrome - very helpful.

Thanks eidsvold, will get the pocket ones then. Wish they'd make the whole Makaton stuff cheaper - they'd be sure to sell more of it and make more money if they did... sigh.

Hi Milge:
I can understand how confusing it must all be. PECS is Picture Exchange Communication System - it involves the exchange of laminated pictures to communicate.

My dd2 is 4 yrs 10 months and was diagnosed in January 04 with autism although it had been suspected for some time. At that point she had only about 5 words that she used very sporadically and was really not making any progress. She went to a speech and language nursery for the first half of the year and made little progress verbally however her eye contact and concentration improved a little and they began using some Makaton with her. In May we began using some PECS with her in the hopes that it would help her communicate a little better and she did pick it up fairly well.

In July we had an ABA (Applied Behaviour Analysis) therapist come to work with her on an intensive program for 6 weeks which turned out to be amazing for her. The ABA turned her lights on and taught her that communication could help people understand what she wanted. Prior to this we had her dragging us around the house by our finger and throwing our arm up towards the kitchen cupboard when she wanted something to eat.

We still use the PECS a little in order to bring in new concepts however because her verbal language has progressed so well (she is at about an 'average' 2 1/2! yr age level now - only 4 months later) we have been trying to focus on that a little more although her SALT and school has suggested bringing in some more Makaton (to relieve the 'pressure' associated with having to speak).

Every child is different and some things may work for some children and families and not others and I know I'm going on a little here (and I could go on and on) but I just wanted to give you a little of our experience of what has worked for us and our girl with autism. PECS and Makaton worked as a bridge to verbal communication and the ABA really helped with her focus.

Where do you live?

Hi Internationalgirl, thanks for the explanation and your experiences - it has cheered me up no end! Would you suggest i bother with makaton at all, then or just go straight into PECS? We live in deepest darkest wales

Hi milge:
I'm in North London. The fact that your dd has started creating her own sign language is fantastic - it means she would probably be quite receptive and sounds quite visual. How is your dd's eye contact - can you 'get in' at all. We had a lot of trouble early on - she would not look at me at all. Does she have any vocalisation?

To be honest makaton is probably cheaper to set up and get started initially. PECS is quite an effort to set up and get going (although some of the other mums here can attest to how much fun a laminator is to have!!) and can be initially quite costly however once you get going it is great.

Another thing I found is that not everyone can understand makaton sign language but most people can understand a picture. Makaton is mostly handy if all the people working with her use it too. Have you thought about nursery placement?

Re: PECS - Have a look on the web - if you go to www.pecs.com (sorry can't do links) there is some information and products available. They do have PECs training courses too although I am not sure how close they come to 'deepest, darkest' Wales. One thing I would say is the sooner you start ANYTHING with her the more likely progress may be seen.

Do you have a speech and language therapist in your area? Someone who is familiar with either makaton or PECS?

Some makaton signs we have found really helpful are "finished" "stop" "waiting".

Both programmes totally have their merits - you just have to decide which one is right for you or try both like we did.

If you want to you can try to contact me via contact another.

Have you looked into whether you could do an Earlybird course through the NAS? That would be a great start.
Although many people feel against PECs or signing once children start to speak it is proven that both can help speakers with word retrieval, sequencing and general processing etc (if I ever got the chance to try that out!)

I use sign language wth my babies that I work with and I have some 16 month olds that are using 30 signs plus and putting two or three together. Sentences, even! Makaton is great, even I can use it![rin]

Hi milge, my DD is nearly four and has been using PECS for about six months. We tried signing with her first but the only sign she used spontaneously was biscuit (she needed prompting for the others). WE are at at sticky point with PECS at the mo but it is generally going really well. I know of children for whom signing has been a fantastic breakthrough, communication-wise. I went on a makaton course at my local child development centre- you could ask about that?

ps Give your HV a kick up the *. Tell her other SN HV's organise Makaton courses. It's her job to point you in the right direction!
Do you have a SALT?

I am trying to avoid automatically barging in on ever communication thread (as a SALT) and anway, the advice you are being offered is great.
However I must say that the approach is appalling.
These people are supposed to be here to help you. That is their bloody job!!!

If your SNHV is out of her depth (although she shouldn't be-signing is not a difficult thing to lear to do or learn about) then she should be referring you on.

You should have a SALT as has been said who can talk you through signing,PECS, visual sytems of other sorts and so on.

Sounds like your dd is wondefully resourceful devising her own signing system. She needs assistance and she needs it NOW!!!

Kick up a big fuss and if I can be of assistance, please post me-I am passionate about signing too.

PS Of course it is great for you to be investigating this stuff yourself, but you should be given guidance-website addresses, leaflets, telephone numbers, parent support groups and so on.

The nerve-!!!

Mizmiz,I can't speak for anyone else here, but I am sure that many will feel the same.
Your input as a SALT is greatly appreciated. Due to the lack of SALT in many areas, it is a sore point to many of the mums on the SN board. I feel almost frightened to pester you,there are so many questions you mean to ask but never get the opportunity!

Not at all!
I mentioned two things over the last few days, firstly that I love my job and would bang on about it for ever given the chance (dh won't let me though!) and secondly that I have just moved abroad to be with him with him with dd and my new ds so have a lot of time on my hands!
Oh, and third thing is that my own dd has comm. difficulties and I know how scary that is, even when, like me, you are supposed to know what you are doing.(Also know how hard it is to get therapy-a major major bummer.)

Soooooooo,fire away with the questions!!! Will try my best with anything although partic. area of knowledge is PMLD and severe comm. difficulties needing some sort of augmentative system.

BTW, good idea when you actually do get a face to face visit with SALT to write your questions down, or better still, send a list of them to her before an appt. so you can discuss them.

Noone has ever done it to me, although I would be delighted if they did. I never leave without asking if there are any questions/if explanations are clear etc etc. I can often see that people aren't clear/entirely happy but they can't/won't always say. Wish they would!

How cool is mizmaz?

Pretty damn cool, i'd say!
Thank you so much all of you for your advice - will willingly boot the HV into the middle of next week if i ever have to see her again - she is useless!
Am seeing the autistic specialist on thursday next week, and will ask her advice re makaton or pecs, although am leaning towards the latter.
She has referred us to a SALT on the NHS, we have paid in the past for a private one, but should see an NHS one in the next couple of months. Am v good at making a fuss, have Q jumped badly thanks to my complaining, got dd on the top paeds consultants list, who has called in favours to get DD to see neurology, genetics and autism consultants within a fortnight of our first appt with him.
thanks again for your help, don't feel so lost now