Friends have asked me what I think of their Ds's behaviour... how much should I say?

[Quandry]

Sorry, but I've changed my name for this as it's a bit sensitive....I hope SN mums might offer me some advice...

My DS has been 'at school' i.e. nursery and now Reception with the son of some friends of ours for about 3 years now. DH & I know his parents quite well, and sometimes see them socially.

DS was originally friendly with their DS, but as they've both grown up my DS has increasingly said he 'isn't friends with Boy X anymore'.

BoyX clearly has some developmental issues:

• slower speech development
• social development problems (hitting/ scratching etc)
• extreme of behaviour - public tantrums/ screaming/ destructiveness

Since starting Reception, several of the 'new' Mums have approached me (knowing that I know Boy X family) and asked me "what's up" with Boy X.
Some have shared with me that their children are scared of him - that he is hitting them in the playground/ being aggressive.
One child has said he doesn't want to go to school because of him.
I know the teachers are somewhat aware, and 'are keeping a close eye' (whatever that means) and have moved him to avoid conflict in certain situations.

Anyway, here's the problem: A few days after a recent, and the first, Parent's evening, Boy X's
father cornered me at a kids party and started asking me what my perspectives/ experiences of his son were, and to be honest I fudged a bit of a non-response : said I knew he had been slow with speech (we've talked about this before) and that perhaps he was taking a little longer to settle in etc etc.

Afterwards I felt as if I'd skirted round the issues for fear of upsetting them. But now I'm worried that they are perhaps less aware of the problems than I thought, asked for a candid discussion, and I didn't really help them.

I could have told them e.g.
That my DS has had 2 pairs of his glasses broken by Boy X tearing them off him
That just last week he came home with a huge scratch just below his eye from Boy X
That other parents are concerned because their children are scared.

But wouldn't this just make them feel more anxious?

I don't know what to do. How mcuh would you want to be told, if your DS had similar issues?
Is it possible that they may not aware of the extent of problems?

Oh God, very tricky but if they are asking you then surely they want to / need to know the truth. How to do it though? Hmmmmm, well I think they should know the truth but will have to think about the best way to handle it. Don't blame you for not steaming straight in there with the facts though, v sensitive and needs to be handled carefully.

This is tricky. I'd have so done what you did - it's really hard to tell someone their child is less than perfect isn't it? Surely if there was really something wrong with him the school would know about it and do more than they seem to be. Have you had parents' evening yet? What did they say to your friends about their son then?

Was there a - or will there be another - chance for you to get at why he was asking? - as in something like "how was parents' evening for you?" & gauge the response?

I truly don't think a parent would ask another parent "what do you think of my child?" unless they were worried and needed to know how to take it further. But I think you need to know in what context they were worried. I would bet they have had a shocker of a parents' evening and are trying to get some perspective. If that's right, then it was brave of him to ask. I think, though, the right approach would (on the trivial analogy of a friend with a bad haircut) not to tell him what you think, but to ask what his feelings/thoughts are. My guess is he's not data-collecting, but looking for a sounding-board.

(BTW, I've been there, as the parent of the child about whom there are worries.)

Thanks - it's good to know that you might all have reacted in the same way - at least I know that I'm not alone in my cowardliness

Listmaker - yes, I think the school HAD discussed this, and this is what spurred the Q from the Dad.
He said that the teacher had said that the behaviour he was demonstrating wasn't really consistent with any of the 'typical' behavioural problems associated with the more 'recognised conditions - i guess this means things like Autism, Attention Deficency etc. There seems to be a problem with him understanding the flow of 'cause and effect' e.g. if he hits someone, the child then cries, and the teacher tells him off and asks why does he think he's been naughty, he says "because the child is crying" not, "because I hit him" IYSWIM?

I think some social aspects were also discussed - difficulty forming friendships, which I suppose must be linked to the aggressiveness.

It's really tricky - I really DO feel for them and their son, but equally I don't feel very supportive - we havn't gone out of our way to invite them round for playdates etc because DS doesn't really like him that much and it always ends up in tears.

No, i think you did the right thing. it is most probably obvious to his parents now he has started school that he is having problems. if school are concerned and taking action the parents would have been informed anyway. just be there to support them

I'd try the lighthearted approach or make up a story of a 'friend' with similar problems. You could say from mumsnet? And maybe say they're getting advice from a paediatrician (sp?)
Just want to add that you sound like a lovely person and friend to have

that is such a nightmare scenario. I don't know what I'd do. I'd want to help but I wouldn't want to offend. would probably try and ask leading questions and try and get them to tell me they suspected he had problems and then maybe sympathise and offer constructive advice. don't think I would tell them the truth. very very tough one, I do sympathise with you.

Its often helpful to turn this sort of question back to them - ask what are they worried about, what concerns have they got about his behaviour? Then you can be supportive and sympathetic without risking being hurtful - also you will have a much better idea of where they are at in terms of awareness and it will be clearer how far you can go. Agree though that you don't need to be bald - I'm sure subtle comments will be heard loud and clear, most parents are super-sensitive about their kids after all.
Tricky though. I was in a similar situation staying with friends over the summer, but copped out of saying what I really thought - my excuse was that I didn't know them very well and also wasn't really sure if the behaviour I was seeing WAS particularly worrying. Thought of lots of good ways of framing my concerns afterwards...

I am in the same position as you.

My god son is two in a weeks time - he is not walking , talking, doesnt sit unaided(mum props him against cushions, he has no eye contact and screams the house down if anyone touches him.

I feel so sorry for Mum because she has had really bad postnatal depression and the screaming all day doesnt help!!!

I have little M for a couple of hours each day just to give her a break. She is vey aware of the problems that we have had with J - she is J's godmother.

The other day she asked me if I thoought M was the same as J!!!

I just didnt know what to say. For the past 6 months both hubby and I have been saying that M is displaying so many of the traits that J had at his age and we didnt recognise them in our own son. We accepted the health visitors explanations of J not talking because he had an older brother to do it for him etc...

I really did not want to tell her what I think and feel - so I chickened out and said that I thought he might be a bit slow but no two children are the same...blah blah blah

Now I feel like I havent given her the help that she needs. I wish someone had told us when J was smaller what his probs could be - might have saved years of worrying and wondering.

The only suggestion I would make to is if you pointed your friends in the direction of some good books to read. Most of us have identified our children in the text of ASD books - maybe this would help them make the decission to go and seek help from their GP.

I think its only natural to avoid the issue and go away and think about it, I think we'd all do that. But now that you have both thought about it, having been asked directly by the parents, I really think you should go back to them yourselves, don't wait for them to raise it again, and say you wonder if it would help to talk about it honestly and that you do have some concerns. I know its not easy and its NOT your job but, as the old cliche goes, it's hard hearing that your child has problems but its MUCH harder not to hear it. Forget about the school "keeping a close eye", they can do that too but this mum needs to talk to someone about it. There may well be blubbering but that, to me, is what being supportive is all about. Let us know what happens and if we can help at all.

I really feel that you should be honest - but tactful - with them, and try and offer as much support as you can.

Jaysmum, has your friend not had any tests for her son? i would find it very odd that at 2 he cant sit or move around and she has only just realised. i know you said she has depression. really have they not seen anyone? he should be having some tests..... sorry if i am overstepping the mark and being insensitive. My daughter has 'severe' delays and I wish i had sought help sooner for her, thats all.

Davros and elliot have the right approach. i am a coward, i must say. Sometimes the truth hurts but it is better in the long run. Just dont be harsh because it does really hurt

I think once people ask they know. I tend to avoid saying what diagnosis I think the child has but tell them who to ask for referals to and suggest a few books to read.

I know it's difficult but I think if someone asks outright then you should try to give an honest opinion. There's nothing worse IME than worrying what the problem might be, searching through books and internet sites, going all the way through the dx process and then having someone say "Well I thought there was a problem but I didn't like to say."

I'm going through the dx process with ds2 now and I have to say that I really appreciate it when people who know ds1's problems try to let me know that they think ds2 might have difficulties too.

It can take a lot to pluck up the courage to ask for an opinion. They might not ask again.

Fio2,
I really am concerned about my godson. Mom is not very good at taking him to see the health visitor. When I looked after him yesterday I looked in his red book and the last time she took him to the clinic was when he was 14 months old.

I phoned her today and she told me he is going for his 2 year development check in two weeks time.

I just hope and pray the health visitor refers him to the Doc for further assessments.

My friend does tend to mother him too much and treats him like a baby instead of a toddler. She sits him in his highchair and plonks him infront of the tv most of the day because then she doesnt have to entertain him!! Breaks my heart to see it - but I just cant bring myself to say anything. Thats why I have him nearly everyday just to give her a rest and to try and give him some stimulation - he does scream all the time if anyone touches him and I know it drives her crazy.

Dad works shifts so he isnt around that much and when he is not at work he plays golf!!!! So she doesnt get much time to cope with her own probs.

Just glad I have a good hubby.

I look back at dss behaviour and the people we surrounded ourselves with before the dx and think 'how bloody obvious was that!'But It was so upsetting when I recieved any kind of feedback because if it was remotely negative it destroyed me and my confidence. This is when ds was tiny and I was also quite depressed. Later when things started to become more obvious and we began on the long and weary track to a dx peoples observations became useful, still upsetting but useful. A great one was ' you really are doing well you know, ds seems to be much more of a handful than other kids his age, do you ever get time out? This was leading and it worked, I got a lot off my chest just by voicing concerns, I think its good to have a sounding board, not neccessarily answers, but just a good ear and some well chosen questions maybe

I wish people had said more to us about what they thought about our ds1 for the 5.5 yrs before he was diagnosed. To us he was just ds1 for a long time, and as our first son we thought it was just boyishness for a long time. It was my sister who spurred me on to get some testing done, but I didn't really do much about that until he'd got into a mess in his first year at school. Had we known sooner, he would have had support in place that year, and we all would have had an easier time.
I know retrospect is a great thing, but after we had the dx everyone seemed to be saying things like 'he always was a bit in your face wasn't he?' and 'yes he always was exhausting'.. Didn't get a lot of supportive remarks, but would try and give them in this situation at the same time as being honest about your thoughts and pointing them in the right direction for further info
Good luck.

jaysmum it doesnt sound very good does it? Hopefully when he has his 2 yr check EVERYTHING will be picked up. i am pretty sure any HV in their right mind would refer on to a development paed. You sound like a great godmother btw!

But no HVs ARE in their right mind! She'd be much better off going to her GP and forgetting the HV.

Must admit that I've completely bypassed our HV this time around because I knew I'd be fobbed off about ds2. The EYIS sent the HV a copy of her initial report ages ago. Has the HV bothered to contact us? Has she bllcks!

Bloody asterisks!

Quandry - I've been in a v similiar situation, and in the end was as direct as I could be while making it clear that I was actually v fond of the child in q and was a 'sympathetic ear' and on the side of her Mum. Harder when I had serious concerns about a child when the parents apparantly had none - just Kept quiet then and let the school raise it!

No amount of attention from the parents will affect WHETHER a child has SN or not. I expect they use the TV, high chair and games of golf as a result of the difficulties and feel quite powerless. The outcome or progress will be affected by how the parents behave to a certain extent but they need to get to 1st base before they can even start to help their child.