SN NURSERIES

[stickyj]

Follkowing on from a very heated and possibly divorce making arguement from a man I thought I knew really well...

Why are there no SN Nurseries? Answer his quiries for me 'cos I'm struggling..

So (in his words) you get a statement at 3yrs, if you're lucky, what happens before then if you know your child is SN but don't have a statement. I'm asking this because I've just had a real go at him about SN in general. I don't know, help me out here 'cos I would love to think about starting a Nursery just for SN kids. I know that you, as a parent wouldn't get funding (or would you, according to him ask the Disabilities Minister). If you are not "rich" and can't afford the SN stuff that's around, ie : my friend has a private facility for Auti kids, then WTF do you do? This discussion all started about a previous post ( I teach music to littlies and I was asking about PECS). My freind who teaches with me ois a trained Music Therapist and we were talking about why she's doiong this job and not what she's trained for etc etc....

If you have a child with SN when do you start getting help and hopw much? I know that 3 is statementing time but what if you want to/need to wrok, do any nurseriues have provision for SN kids before 3 yrs and if so, what? Really ineterested 'cos think there's a gap in the market and there must be some reason why it's not being filled. Also, still need to sort out my little one who needs PECS. Many thanks..

Umm. I know two people who have had a job offer and a nursery place sorted out but then couldn't get the funding for extra help for their child's visual impairment (and couldn't afford the extra themselves) so had to put the job plans on hold until their DC is at school. You can start the statementing process at 2 years and it should (theoretically at least) take 6 months. But my understanding is that LEAs won't provide funding for much extra help in a nursery setting (if any)and there's no way of making them do it.

The answer for me has been putting work on hold and claiming benefits and I'm happy enough with that. There's also a lot of work in tkaing him to therapists and hospital appointments and even getting things like a statement in place that mena that working F/T would be just about impossible.

DS has some delays and without a very close 1-2-1 relationship in the best nursery in the world (which is never going to happen), I know I can do a better job with him than a nursery could.

I wouldn't think to choose an SN nursery for DS though unless it specialised in visual impairments and they are fairly rare - so if such a place were to exist the cost/ time to get him there would be high.

Could be possible to make a SN nursery work with a more common SN and in an area where parents are very rich? I think with the staff ratios you'd need and the need to take children to various appointments most paretns in that position would choose a private nanny - I would.

Sorry about all the mistakes - am wresting toddler with other hand

Some sn schools have nurseries & are fantastic but I don't know if any take children younger than 3.
TBH I wouldn't expect to find a funded place for my sn child any earlier than I would a funded place for my nt child.
Both my children went to a childminder although I did have to find a new childminder willing to take ds2 & she was brilliant. He went to pre-school a few sessions a week from 2.5 & did a mixture of sn & ms pre school.
The ms pre school was very small & the senco acted as his 1 to 1, although he has complex needs his behaviour was never disruptive or dangerous so they were able to manage within their existing staffing.
My friend has a v severly disabled baby who has been at a private nursery since he was 6 months old. It hasn't cost her any more than it would for a non disabled child but the OT, physio etc have been in to advise & provided additional equipment.
There are grants available to help nurseries with additional costs incurred.
IME it is a case of finding the childcarer that wants to look after your child warts & all & one that will work with you to make it happen.

My ds is 2.2 and has been in a mixed sn/nt daycare setting since he was 6 months old. He got the best of both worlds- the expertis of the staff in dealing with his seizures and the use of the lightroom and specialist etc whilst being in and amongst NT children.
We have paid for this provision although the nursery were given additional funding in order for my son to have 1:1 support.

He saw the Ed Psych a couple of weeks ago and shortly after christmas funding will kick in for him to be able attend for 5 1/2 sessions. They have SALT and Physios attached to the school from our local CDC.

My ds loves the nursey and the staff are fantastic so he will attend for 5 1/2 days up until easter and then we are going to have a gentle transition to our local SN school where he will attend when he starts school. Im hoing that he will do 3 mornings where he is now and 2 in the new school.

dd is in a SN nursery that is part of the nearest SN school. She was statetmented at 2 and went to Claremont at 2.10. She's now 3.9 and is entitles to 5 half day sessions but I think she's too little. After crimbo she'll go 2 mornings to the SN place (hours taxi ride across the city) and 1 morning to the local m/s nursery where she will have 1:1 support.
She has severe CP and seizures. (no hand function or sitting or speaking)
There probably is a gap in the market but non-disabled kids don't reall attent nursery before 3. They go to playgroups that you pay for. Thats where the gap lies. No playgroup could take DD.

CDC's sometimes have nurseries. And special schools (although as someone has said more pre-school).

At the PECS conference last year there was a talk from a woman who had set up a SN nursery (private- but with funding for support provided by the LEA). I thought it looked fantastic and would have loved to do something like it. >

Having sent ds1 to a private ms nursery with SN funding provided (without a statement) by the LEA I would say the main problem is getting the SN funding. They would only give us 12 hours a week (after some heated telephone exhanges this was upped to 15 hours).

However there's a big thing now about how every child should be able to access nursery provision and before and after school care. Locally many children with SN can't. Often parents of children with disabilities can't return to work because of the problems with childcare. I reckon presented correctly you would perhaps be able to access some funding.

Give me a bit of time and I'll dig out the PECS conference notes and provide a link to the private SN nursery. She would be worth talking to.

Yes, there is a gap in the market.

If you have an NT child, you have (as a woman) the right to return to work. You can put your child in a fee-paying nursery which will look after them from 8am to 6pm, 5 days a week and school holidays too.

If you have an SN child then (unless their SN are of the sort that can be coped with in a mainstream environment) then you have no such right.

You will be put in a long queue for "portage" which is 1 hour of assisted play per week in your own home. You will probably get, once your child is 3, the standard 5 x 2 hour sessions per week at the nearest suitable SN nursery, as long as there is one local to you which is appropriate. As far as I can tell, if not - then tough. There is no legal requirement to provide education till reception age.

You do sometimes get provision earlier and better than that - there are mixed SN/mainstream nurseries or SN units in mainstream nurseries. There are nurseries attached to SN schools which you may get into earlier than 3. But you have no legal entitlement to any of this. It's a matter of luck what is available locally and you are damn grateful for whatever crumbs they hand you.

You will also find that most support for SN educational battles is geared to the mass market (if I may put it so crudely) - the vast majority of parents contesting statements or the lack of statements have children with ASD who did not get firm diagnosis till school age. IPSEA helpline (for instance) could not tell me what our legal entitlement was when DD1 was 2 1/2 - they just don't consider that age group as their problem. Most kids who have obvious SN at that age also have medical problems and the strong - no, overwhelming - assumption on the part of all professionals you meet is that the mother will give up work to attend hospital appointments, therapy etc. and once you have done that, frankly it's Game Over, careerwise, and nursery isn't an option any more for financial reasons.

portage here is one hour per MONTH. 12 months only. Total poo.

MY DS went to a SN nuresey that was actually only for children with ASD. The woman that ran it was fab and massively over- subscribed. Private but mostly places paid for by LEA. Persistent buggers like me found it and would enrol pre statement and funding would loop in as soon as statement confirmed. Saved my life. Literally.

As far as I knew, extra help at nurseries or sn nursery placements (like ds's) are funded by the NHS, LEA only taking over once the statement is in place? Or maybe that's just us...

LEA pay for all of dd's stuff. And they funded her SN place from 2.

"Early intervention my arse". Exactly my sentiments, Fio. Liverpool has an ICAN (specialist nursery for kids with language problems). Except to get in, you need to see a SALT, then an ed psych, then get referred by head of SALT. It's nigh on impossible to get a SALT referral before 3 years old. Current waiting lists for first appointment are 9 months plus. Ed psych appears to be a completely separate waiting list. So how on earth any child gets through the system before school age is beyond me. Oh and Liverpool doesn't have portage.

ha ha totalChaos _ I was going to write EXACTLY the same about our local ICAN nursery.

It's hard to find SN nurseries nowadays, especially LEA. Goes against their inclusion policies (of which I'm not a fan, have to say). Personally I find the policy of SN children having to attend their local Childrens Centres (half of which are not yet functioning) very sad.
We have Opportunity Group in the Croydon area which takes children from 3 months up but they are under massive financial pressure and is a struggle to keep it going.
Our SN (PD/complex medical need) school had an excellent nursery for 2.5yrs upwards. LEA closed it last September. Very sad. My own son attended that nursery ten years ago and it was an absolutely lifeline to him and us.