How to stop the violence?

[LovelyLovelyWarmCoffee]

Good evening, I hope someone can give me some advice. My 7yo son is being assessed for ASD but the process is slow and I feel like in parallel we need to urgently take action to work on his violence.

A bit of context, the pediatrician mentioned Asperger (‘even though we are now not supposed to use this word’ his words), DS does well at school in academic subjects (english, maths…) but not so well in subjects such as music, arts etc as he misbehaves. He can behave well when he wants to.
At home conflict starts with trivial things, for example he has to undress and take a shower, he’ll start playing around, annoying his sister, and then it escalates until he reaches a stage where he screams at us that he is going to kill us and throws things at us and tries to hit/scratch us. All we did to deserve this was calmly repeat «please stop doing x and take your clothes off… if you don’t do it now you won’t have time to read afterwards… ok, you have lost the reading time now please undress… ok, now the consequence will be y… I’ll count to 3… etc». We always follow through!

Basically my question is what can I do to work specifically on the verbal and physical violence?
Parental coaching / family therapy this type of things? I’m in SW London, can go private.
Or book recommendations?

We try to stay calm, we never give in, we always repeat that violence is not acceptable and will never get him what he wants, ie he’ll end up doing the task we were fighting about + will get a consequence for his actions.
But there is no progress. I feel like crying most days honestly.

Any advice more than welcome! Thank you in advance

I'm sorry you're having a difficult time.

From that single example you have given I would read that as. Your son is stressed about the transition (taking the clothes off or what that was leading to, bedtime?). It was then escalated with a threat (losing reading time) then escalated again with the count down. I'm not saying this to blame you I just know in our house how triggering this would be for my ds. Often traditional parenting methods don't work with send children as they can escalate anxiety.

There is a really good Facebook group set up by Yvonne Newbolt (Newbold Hope) which has information on how to deescalate situations to reduce violent behaviours. A lot of it feels antithesis to how you should parent but it has massively reduced violent meltdowns in our house. Essentially trying to remove triggers and put support systems in where you can't.

There is also a book called the explosive child which might help. It's about ways to work with your child to reduce anxiety around demands.

Another thing to look for is your borough should have a 'local offer' page where there should be information about special needs in your area. You might find that there are courses/support groups there that could help.

I absolutely agree on threat escalation. That would be extremely triggering.

It sounds like threats don’t work with your DS. Like the PP says, focus on solving the root of the problem (how to deal with transition) in a way that your DS can handle, as opposed to the resulting bad behaviour.

Good luck

I agree with PP, threat escalation and losing privileges isn’t working with your ds and is just stoking the fire. You need to use calm, deescalation techniques and try to prevent him getting to that stage in the first place. I know exactly how you feel as ds also says the same thing to us and will hit and kick, for us it’s always about screen time. He doesn’t do it all the time but we have difficult phases.

As an aside I would never take away reading/story time, regardless. It’s so important and I would always want them to go to sleep on a positive note.

Hello

Have you tried giving him more affection...may be share some hobbies time with him...craft activities...involve him.in some charitable and community activities and observe how would this impact his violence positively...I am sure it will change him to the better

Have you tried PDA strategies? Has DS seen an OT and does he receive emotional literacy support? Are there any interventions in place such as Zones of Regulation? Also, make sure you lock any knives etc away.

I too would never take away reading time.

I would start picking your battles and reading up on strategies that work with children on the spectrum. I am not saying that you should let him do whatever he wants but typical methods probably will make things worse.

You would be better having a schedule that says bath then something that he likes, giving him time alone to get bathed, not getting drawn into debates, removing sister and yourselves from situation etc etc.

He probably behaves worse in creative subjects because there is more group work and less structure in these subjects. Many of the kids I have worked with find these subjects really tricky. He may also find them harder to perfect. Some kids with ASD find subjects where there isn't a concrete end hard to manage as well.

What support is the school putting in place? If DS needs more additional help have you considered applying for an EHCNA?

Thank you so much for the answers! I’m reading through and taking notes. Will look into threat escalation.
School is doing behavior charts where he has targets (raise hand before answering etc) and gets rewards if he reaches the goals for all lessons, it seems to be working well, he responds well to charts at home as well.
I have started reading the Explosive Child, the shower situation seems like the perfect «trigger» to work on using the book’s system so this sounds promising.

On taking away the reading… I know, not ideal, but not as bad as it sounds. There are two parts to our evening routine, first I read to the DC (DS has a twin sister) then they read on their own separately. I don’t take away both, just one, so he still gets some reading time. And both children are bookworms so even without some reading time taken away he reads 1h+ most days. But still, I’ll take the point.

@cansu any suggestions on how to help him with creative subjects by any chance? I was thinking reviewing with him the targets of each classes (school great at communicating these).

On a positive note he didn’t hit today :)
A merry Christmas to you all, thank you again.

Thanks for starting this thread OP... we are having huge issues with our 5 year old son these Christmas holidays. I know this can be a tough time of year, though it never has been before for us and it has taken me and DH a bit by surprise. DS is having multiple 'episodes' daily where something will trigger him and he will lash out, hitting/kicking us/his siblings, screaming in his siblings' faces, knocking over their toys, etc.

I've tried putting in place a calm area where he can take himself off if feeling anxious/upset; it worked for one afternoon but he is no longer interested in it. At the moment either DH or I has to take him and sit with him in his room or on the sofa until he calms which is ok but obviously not that fair on the other two DC who also want our attention and focus.

I was wondering if any of the previous posters could recommend any books/websites besides The Explosive Child because as my username says, I'm feeling lost! Not a FB group please as I don't use it. We will hopefully be getting some professional support in the new year but nothing yet (and to be honest there hasn't felt a need at home thus far, though there has at nursery).

To help with creative subjects you need to dig deeper into why they are difficult. Is it there is less structure to the lessons? Is it the class is noisier? Do they have someone else in charge of the class (many teachers have PPA time during creative subjects and the class is led by another teacher or TA)? Is it DS struggles with the work - fine motor skills, more subjective tasks, open ended tasks? Does the class have less/no TA support during creative subjects? Do seating plans change for creative lessons?…

Besides behaviour charts what is the school doing to support DS? They need to be providing much more than that.

Aweebitlost if DS is struggling in nursery have you applied for an EHCNA? Have you read “Lost at School”, “The Out of Sync Child” and “Too loud, too bright, too fast, too tight”. I’m sure there’s more I have read too.

Imitatingdory Thank you for those recommendations, I'll have a look at them all.
We haven't applied for anything yet, we're right at the beginning of the process as it's only been a few weeks since nursery said they would like to seek external help. They've been brilliant in supporting him and we are being very much guided by them to be honest - our first step is seeing the HV shortly and they've also suggested Ed Psych.

If the nursery think an Ed Psych assessment is needed apply for an EHCNA as one would be included. IPSEA have a model letter you can use.

aweebitlost a 5yo is unable to regulate and calm down by themselves. They need a calm adult with them to co-regulate, this is how they learn to do it. A time-in situation is better than time out. Teach coping skills when they are calm and not in crisis and then use these techniques when they are. It will be an ongoing process, it’s not something they will get after a couple of goes.

There are some good clinical psychologists on Instagram. I like Dr Becky, she has a podcast too. Janet Lansbury also has some good techniques and has a good podcast and book (she’s not a psychologist).

openupmyeagereyes I think you've misunderstood me - I'm talking about him having a space to go to calm when he's starting to feel a bit stressed. Not once he's become completely dysregulated when yes, obviously he will need our help.
We've parented all of our kids using Janet Lansbury, Laura Markham, Dan Siegel etc ideas so this isn't new to me. But there's obviously more going on with DS than typical 5 year old dysregulation otherwise the nursery wouldn't have come to us (they also follow a very nurturing, child centred approach - train other nurseries on moving away from traditional discipline etc so do know what they are doing).

Sorry, I hope that post didn't come off as a bit snotty. I can see how mine might have read as though I am hoping for something unrealistic.

Sorry, that was based on this comment At the moment either DH or I has to take him and sit with him in his room or on the sofa until he calms which is ok but obviously not that fair on the other two DC. No offence was meant.
Learning what the triggers are and trying to reduce them is key then as well as identifying any sensory issues.

Yes, sorry, I think I was jumping around a bit in my head! My goal is to help him learn when he's starting to feel bad so he can go to his safe space (actually me burying him with pillows on the sofa, which he really likes) so we don't get to the point where one of us has to spend 45 minutes calming him, only for it to happen again 15 minutes later. I don't really mind doing that at all but it can make it impossible to look after the other DC... not such a problem for the 7yo but tricky with the 3yo.
We've been keeping notes to identify triggers but not many patterns emerging yet.

A turning point for me, with my DS, was understanding that his violence and rages were underpinned by anxiety, and that his wish to control everything was part of his attempt to impose order on a chaotic world.

I have found that the run up to Christmas/end of term etc has always been a challenging time in our family, so that may be a trigger in itself. My DS is 11 now, and far less violent than he used to be, but I remember how hard it was. When DS was in full 'Incredible Hulk mode' (sorry if you don't like the analogy, but to me it seems apt), there was nothing you could do or say that would make a difference, the rage just needed to run its course. I've learnt to try and stay as calm as possible, but try and minimise the chance of injury (by turning away, leaving the room etc). Any instructions need to be kept really simple and to be honest I think I've learnt to tune out. He is much easier now, but I still get occasional death threats!

Sanctions and rewards have almost no place in parenting my son it just seems to give him more to argue about. I will occasionally impose a 'natural consequence' eg something gets broken and then isn't replaced, but I don't punish bad behaviour, other than to say (later, when he is calm) that it was wrong. DS is an only child, which in some ways makes things easier, as I don't need to worry about treating him differently.

Pre pandemic my son did karate, to try and give him an outlet/teach self discipline. Overall, I would say it has had a positive effect, but he went through a brief spell of attacking the karate teacher!!!

I'd second a lot of the above - reduce demands, trying PDA strategies etc. Also sounds like sensory issues may be a factor, particularly if removing clothes and bathing is an issue but he likes having cushions piled on to calm down. The Yvonne Newbold site is brilliant, she does webinars that you can register for on different aspects of behaviours, these really helped me to understand the role of anxiety in a lot of my child's aggressive and controlling behaviour.

landofgiants That comment about the run up to Christmas being a trigger in itself is really helpful, thank you.