Im getting towards the end of my tether i really am-nursery

[jenk1]

today when dh picked dd up he was told by the senco (and deputy head) that dd had done 2 "really messy nappies" and that they were "having problems" potty training her and as such wanted to call a meeting with them,us and our HV.

Dh being dh didnt question why and when he told me i got straight on the phone to the headteacher and queried what was going on.

she said, well its clear there are problems with her toileting and we need some advice, so i said "yes there are problems, she has CP, she CANNOT control her bowels/bladder,you have a letter from her paed stating this so i dont understand why or what you are hoping to accomplish from this meeting"
she said well sometimes when we are having trouble, a HV can think of "new ways" to help both us and you at home.

WHATEVER.

im fast running out of patience, they are so desperate to get her out of nappies, ignoring the fact that she has a disability and im not sure what to do about it anymore.

dd does not want to wear knickers or go on the potty so why do they persist in doing this, its making me really upset.

jenk I am horrified, is this the only nursery your dd can go to?

I keep typing something then deleting then shaking my head...

I hope someone else on here has some good advice to help you deal with the attitude of the nursery staff...

oh ffs what is up with these people(sorry angry on your behalf.)
she is only littl. toilet training for children with cp is so hard.(it has teaken us years. i so wish i could give you some advice.
I think you need to go above the hv. Hve you a pead or consultant who you could get help from.

well we have just decided tonight after thinking about it to home ed her.

i am sick and tired of fighting the lea, ive done it for 2 years and its made me ill and has been a contributing factor to my marriage break up.

she hates going to nursery and at the weekend is such a happier calmer child.

im not stressed over her potty training, im confident she will do it when she,s ready.

i home edded mike for 2 years when he couldnt cope with school and the difference in him was astounding, dd is more severely autistic than him and doesnt want to socialise with her peers whereas he did,i cringe thinking of next year when she will go into mainstream school, she still gets upset after 2 years at nursery, i feel bad for not doing it before now.

dh is in agreement and although we are not together he is being brill with the kids and he works earlies one week and lates the next and has told me he will have her when he,s not in work.

its a daunting prospect but i cant watch this stinking system destroy her any longer.

we are telling the head teacher tomorrow, no doubt she will have a thing or 2 to say but i dont care.

heres to a happy future for dd

Oh Jenk why are they persisting & pretending to be an expert!
DS2 (mild CP/ASD) was only toilet trained Aug/Sep, just in time for him to start school.

The only consistent info we got from the paed, psych, OT & in fact anyone who knows anything about SN was Don't force the issue. The last thing you need is for them to create a big toilet phobia or obsession

Jenk1 - I can't believe you are getting the nursery complaining about "messy" nappies - are there any other kind, and does their own sxxxx smell of roses then? You sound like you are doing the right thing and I may be joining you in home ed if my nursery persists in saying things like "not sure he will cope in reception as it's very academic!". Well a) it's not very academic and they do lots of playing from what I remember with my older daughter and b) as the lawyer I spoke to pointed out, that statement shows they completely misunderstand the SEN mainstream inclusion policy, as the whole point is to adapt the curriculum to the SEN child's needs, not the other way around! People are pretty ignorant about this stuff, you will probably give a better education at home anyway!

The anquish you feel over teachers/school and the amount of energy used fighting with them is probably better used purely on your child.

we just removed our boy from nursery a couple weeks ago. guess what, he is potty trained, in 1 week. No pressure, no nothing and he just did it himself. It was wonderful and no doubt the school would take credit for it, saying they taught him the basics, etc and he is just following through.

i have learned that with the schools my boy has been in (2) and all of those that we have viewed for next year reception are woefully inadequate to meet the needs of my boy. They plump themselves up that they are teachers but when it comes to difficulties our children have they are "teaching disabled".

further, most of them want your kid who might be a round hole, into their square box and if they dont conform, God help your child. Its all about compliance and making it easy for them.

As most OT's would say, force the issue of potty training and you can get a very disturbed child over it, sometimes for life.

complete idiots these teachers.

In my view, Nursery should not be potty training children - unless the parents have stated that they are potty training at home, and wish the nursery to continue in the same way as at home (hope that makes sense).

I care for a 3.5 year old NT child... who isn't potty trained. I wouldn't expect a child with CP, ASD etc. to be potty trained at this age. I care for a 5 year old ASD child, who isn't potty trained... what's the problem... until he know's he is wet, there's no point starting (in my view).

Formal education in England is not a requirement until the child reaches 5 years old, so don't feel pressured to send your DD to nursery. Have fun playing at home, children learn through play.

Our boy has been out of nursery for some time now and its been great, i dont think i will send him back to school ever. I hear parents of children who say their kids feel like dying, or want to kill themselves and this shocks me and is so very sad for those children.

is school really worth it? Most parents can homeschool with a little preparation. Its not as hard as one would think, and in our case at least, is far easier than dealing with the worry i had every day that my boy was being misunderstood or messed up by some ignorant teacher.

I agree about Home-Ed mamadadawahwah. I live on tenterhooks with my boy at nursery, worried that he will do something wrong, worried that they will reject him (which really hurts) and just generally holding my breath every day until he gets home, And for what? For this big goal of "socialisation" - but why, if he is ASD then he is not actually going to socialise with the other kids, and yes he is learning how to co-exist with them and how to paint, but I can find gym clubs etc for that form of socialisation. They have not chucked my DS out yet, but they are making broad hints. I'd like to tell these pathetic, patronising people to fxxx off. One of the most choice comments from his teacher was "I don't think he'll be able to cope with reception, it's much more academic". Well of course he won't cope with the WHOLE curriculum, but the whole point of mainstream inclusion it to adapt to his needs, not the other way round - or do I have that wrong???!

But (and it's a big but) I only got funding for his home ABA program because the LEA want to gradually introduce him to school. So my bet is I'd lose the money for home tutoring if school fails. The other ASD schooling options in my borough are so woefully awful that "benevolent neglect" would be a better description for them than "school". So I am a in a bind - any advice welcome!

oops only just seen this.

well we were set to remove dd from home ed, i saw the specialist HV the other week and i was telling her how unhappy we were.
she was horrified at what nursery were trying to do, she asked me to not do anything as dd is happy, she said "believe me jen i go in regular and she,s really happy, i wouldnt lie to you,but LEA need to address her needs"

anyway later that day when dh went to pick up dd, nursery told him that they werent going to try and potty train dd and that perhaps we could all sit down in the spring and work out where we go and if indeed she,s ready for training then.
since then she,s been happier at nursery and we,ve agreed to keep her in.
also we saw the consultant paed and told her what had gone on and she is writing to nursery to tell them that dd has complex needs and that they will require specialist help with her and that they cannot treat her as the other kids, also she has ordered an independent asessment of dd from the consultant at CAMHS as she suspects dd has PDA.

There is to be a complete new asessment and 2 top consultants are asessing her and they said if they cannot agree on her dx then they want to consider sending her to nottingham to see professor elizabeth newsome.

so the professionals are taking note now and someone appears to have cracked the whip at nursery as they are falling over backwards to help dd.

got the tribunal coming up now in the spring to get her asessed but with these 2 consultants onboard are hoping that the LEA will take not of them.

that should say we were set to remove her from nursery!!!

aqairusmum, are you a member of "education otherwise", the website? Lots of info on the crap they mete out about socialisation. Its a con. but you know that already.

in my boys ex school, the fact that he didnt hit, bite or spit on other kids was interpreted as him liking other children!!!!!

really he had absolutely no interest in them, and the class with 20 other kids was making him emotionally ill and causing behaviours. They will do all they can to throw the socialisation card at you because its anaethema for any school/district to admit that parents can do better at home, educating their own children.

having read extensively on the matter, like many parents I am totally convinced that home ed is for us. I dont want a robot for a son who will only learn what they want him to, i.e. compliance, and how to sit at assembly. funny how the biggest praises he ever got was when he sat, the odd time, in circle time or at dinner. oh, they were so pleased at that, that was just sooooo important to them.

after a short time out of school, my boy is so much happier, and i realised that putting together a "curriculum" is not hard at all, considering, most of the time our kids spend in school is wasted. real academic learning time in an average school setting comes out to be about 1/4 of the actual time spent. there are studies on this.

further, in terms of socialisation, can you remember or do you want to remember the kids you went to school with when you were young? i dont even remember anyone from uni, much less grade school, and most of them, i didnt want to socialise with.

for us, homeschooling means my son can associate with all kinds of people, and all age brackets through social events, not just another bunch of 4 year olds. He knows elderly people, babies, young adults and all kinds.

on the ABA front, Jenk, we had funding for ABA for 2 years. ABA is a home education program and going to school can sometimes impact negatively on your ability to obtain funding.

first off, the school will inevitably claim any progress your child makes. be sure at your review, that you have all his progress fully documented and take credit for it, and how it came about.

Our boy had ABA from 3 and 4 for two years, with no schooling. It was exclusively a home program, except for the latter part of his 4th year. We realised how hard it was to have him in a nursery and in his ABA program cause the 2 did not gel.

ABA is set up for home exclusivity and school does not enter into the equation, so if they throw this at you, say school has been detrimental to the efficacy of the ABA program, certainly not the other way round.

my take on things anyway.

as you can tell, we did not have a happy experience with school and ABA. They just did NOT get it, nor had any will to get it.

mamadadawah, that post is so useful and I will look up Education Otherwise, as I reckon you are right - home education can be just as good if not better than our school system today. I am a trained teacher from many years ago, plus I reckon I have more patience etc to teach my DS to read (have already started, it will be a long haul, but I have the determination which seems to come with being an SEN mum!)

Agree about socialisation and school - it's not really socialisation they're learning, but large group survival skills; am not sure at this stage how useful that will be to DS. I already take him once a week to a mainstream gym club, and can find other groups like that. Spending time with grandparents too is useful, had not thought of that - my dad is teaching my other child times tables (school doesn't bother with these anymore) and my mum is teaching her piano and sewing (two more things she won't get at school!)

You have all made me feel a lot more positive about if they do chuck him out - and Jenk, I still hope maybe they will turn out to be nicer people than I think, but can't help expecting them to turn out to be lazy, prejudiced and thick - my main experiences of the SEN system bods so far!

remember, most teachers have a teaching "disability" when it comes to teaching our kids with various difficulties.

YOU ARE SO RIGHT! My adorable, 4 year old, golden haired, gorgeous smiling, non aggressive but quite excitable little boy had the great good luck to find a class teacher who has described herself as "scared" of him, after only 6 weeks (during which he had done nothing wrong except be autistic)! Give me strength! I told her (very calmly I am proud to say) "don't be scared of him, he is only a 4 year old child)and then wondered why I am even bothering with this mainstream school.

there is nothing i would like better than to send my boy to the local mainstream school if i had even an ounce of confidence in them. we made the decision not to go the special school route, as in our area, its a "dumping ground" for kids who dont "fit", there are kids with emotional/behavioural difficulties and physical problems as well. the bar is set so low at these local special schools, it breaks my heart. so that is a no go area too.

which is why we are home schooling. Your comment on the teacher being scared is probably one that if most teachers were honest, is felt by many of them towards children with an ASD and other difficulties.

i just wish I could go into the schools with my own little boy and be his teacher. we cant replicate all the toys and the other children that the school has, but one thing we can do that they cant, is provide undivided loving 1:1 attention to our boy and total understanding and acceptance of him as a person with a unique personality and not just a "scary" label.

oh my, i dont know what i would have done had that comment come up at our school, i.e. scared.

sheesh, these people, they really are 30 years behind. No way, my kid is going to be their guinea pig.

sorry to rant, its just so incredibly frustrating isnt it?

happy christmas

we feel the same way mamadadawahwah, I actually asked the school if I could be my DS's Teaching Assistant but they said no, as it's not their policy.Agree too about the bar being set so low in special schools - we actually paid privately for our son to go to an ASD nursery for 2 years, but because they allowed him to stim "because he needed to let off steam" (aka "because they needed ot have a coffee break") he actually came out behaving worse not better. That has all changed at the mainstream school, where he is able to sit still for register and play well alongside other kids. The most amazing thing to me is when I see him sitting with his coat on at the end of class, making eye contact with me, but not getting up and coming to me until his name is called. That is like a totally different child than the manic boy who used to greet me after special school. I told the school that, on that basis alone, I felt he had really done well in his first term ever at mainstream, but they seemed to be expecting too much and were very downbeat.

Oh well, I guess we all have a week off - happy Christmas to you too and you Jenk!