Violent 6 year old - ASD or behavioural?

[ThisCatLikesRain]

Apologies if the title is a little blunt but I’d be curious to know what parents with SN experience think of this. Have name changed as I don’t want it linking to other posts.

If a 6 year old (just six, rather than almost seven, if that’s relevant) is having outbursts which involve hitting/physically lashing out at others, would you say it is likely that there is something underlying going on, or that it is simply “bad behaviour”?

DS has been having these outbursts for around 18 months now. It is difficult to predict what triggers them, although I don’t think the demands of school help. I describe them as outbursts rather than meltdowns because he gives the impression he has some control over what he is doing, eg he’ll say he’s going to kick you/throw something, and then does it, rather than simply doing it, if that makes sense. Though I question how much control he does have once he gets going. The outbursts involve hitting/kicking/shouting/other forms of “bad behaviour” and are virtually impossible to defuse once he starts.

Punishments are futile, ditto warnings when behaviour starts ramping up. Outbursts only happen with family - never at school or the childminder’s.

Neither of us dispute that there is something wrong here and that DS needs help managing his feelings, and that we need to work out why he is so angry.

But I think DS is almost certainly neurodiverse (I suspect ASD, possible sensory issues, and he has high levels of anxiety. I think he may also have ADD but I’m not an expert). And DH is very keen not to label.

DH is constantly wanting to see whether it improves with time/continuity of schooling. Whereas I feel that whatever is going on, DS seems to find life more difficult than most children his age and it’s this that we need to be looking at, in terms of why.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Also, I apologise if I’ve inadvertently offended anyone by implying that children with SN or who are neurodiverse are more likely to be violent. It’s more that I believe we are way beyond the point where such behaviour would be considered typical for his age and so I feel we need to look seriously at whether something else is going on.

My son with ASD (7yo) has violent meltdowns, particularly if he has had a build up of stress. He will also provoke us ie hit my daughter or randomly thump me or Dh if he is anxious. With him it is often not one particular thing that causes the stress but a range of things building up over time.

There is a brilliant Facebook group dedicated violence in send children called 'SEND VCB' You might find some of the videos about how to descalate challenging behaviour helpful, even if he doesn't have SN.

I think if you are worried about his behaviour you should talk to the school SENCO or your GP to have it investigated further.

Just a thought but maybe him telling you in advance is him trying to tell you that he is stressed and he is unsure how to manage his behaviour?

Thank you for replying - I’ll take a look at that Facebook group.

His school have been pretty useless, to be honest. We have talked to the SENCO, who had responsibility for his group earlier in the year during lockdown (key worker provision) - she agreed he has some amber flags for ASD (as in, could be ASD, could be quirks) but she was very quick to put us off approaching the GP for a diagnosis. All support they offer is based on need, not diagnosis, and he doesn’t qualify because he isn’t showing any need at school.

He is under a paediatrician for a possibly related physical issue and I have raised it with them as it may be quicker to have him referred within paediatrics than go to the GP.

Your thought about why he might tell us in advance is interesting. In the moment, it doesn’t feel that way - it’s immediately before he does it, so it feels more like a provocative statement of intent rather than a “Mummy, I’m so cross I want to hit somebody”. It is really difficult to tell the extent to which there is a behavioural angle - on some level it feels like an attention thing and he wants a reaction. I don’t want to seem to be dismissing his behaviour or minimising it, especially if there is an underlying issue. This is why I’m interested to know whether other neurodiverse (or neurotypical) children of around the same age tend to lash out.

With send children, particularly ones that can function better in public by masking, the bad behaviour/violence often happens at home because that is their safe space. You'll find a lot of threads on these boards about the difficulty of getting the correct support for children who mask at school then have problems at home.
When my ds has problems at school he'll more likely lie on the floor and not move or hide than be violent. Whereas at home it will be full on hitting/punching/kicking and destroying things.

Talking to the paediatrician sounds like a good idea and hopefully they will give you some support or at least signpost you in the right direction.

Is he your only child? I found I missed a lot of behaviours with ds because he was my first. It wasn't until we had dd who is neurotypical that I realised how extreme a lot of ds's behaviours were. My dd is about the same age as your ds and although she does get emotional and have outbursts she wouldn't think to lash out and her behaviour is usually managed relatively easily. With ds once he is in a overloaded state it takes a large amount of time to calm him down.

Interesting you should mention about siblings. He is our first….and if I’m honest, I have had concerns about some of his behaviour since he was about 18 months old. His younger brother is now about that age and is on a different setting, in that he doesn’t show most of the behaviours that concerned me with DC1. They’re like Apple and Android. It’s partly this that raises my concerns in relation to DC1: DC2 just finds life easier and that’s been obvious for probably a year now.

One thing you could do is keep a behaviour diary. If the behaviour is down to an ASC or anxiety driven it is very likely that a pattern will emerge e.g. Sunday nights were problematic for my two when they started to worry about school the next day. I reckon ds2 always got less understanding than ds1 with his behavioural issues because he looked to be seemingly in control - but when you started to analyse it the behaviour was always linked to something he found very stressful & the solution was helping him to manage that stress rather than taking a punitive approach.

I think as well as the above advice, gently chatting to your husband about the difference between diagnosis and label. A diagnosis would lead to help, support, strategies and an insight into your son. Without a diagnosis perhaps a label will still occur - eg. “naughty” “violent” ........ worth thinking about while you wait. Though the diagnosis times for anything will be years potentially so looking at the above ideas, reading the explosive child book, seeing if the diary throws up any patterns will be good.
And yes, gone is the safe place so many different behaviours will be shown there so don’t be fobbed off if they’re not at school as you still need help 😊

Ho
sorry to jump on your post but I was just wondering how things were now for you? We are going through a similar thing with DD and would be interested to know any strategies that were successful

ok so the casgcugfcfg kfdsr;rwqhjn