Mainstream school issues

[PumpkinKlNG]

Is it possible to ever get an appointment with IPSEA? Been trying for ages now and can never get one? It’s quite urgent I need support but can’t get any ☹️

I found sitting on the website and refreshing the page worked to get an appointment. It definitely took a while though.

Otherwise i would suggest contacting you local SENDIASS team or SOSSEN who have a helpline.

Thank you I will try that. I’ve tried to contact sendiass but unfortunately they are closed due to the pandemic still in my area, it’s only email contact and I’m finding it hard to discuss things over email I would much rather speak to someone on the phone

Can you request a call back from Sendiass? That's what I did, though because they are short staffed it took them a week to come back to me. I appreciate I'm likely in a different area though.

What's your problem @PumpkinKlNG?

Maybe we can help on here?

I agree with Ellie, why don't you post here.

Posting on here will get you some response rather than no response and continuing to worry.

Thanks guys I’ve managed to get a call back from sendiass for Monday so hopefully I can get some real life advice as it’s quite difficult so need some real life support, but it’s my daughter is 10 and in a mainstream primary, she is in year 5 and very behind socially, but academically she is only behind one year apparently. I’ve had to discuss her transition into secondary school and I personally feel she won’t cope in a mainstream secondary school she has no friends in primary school, not one as she is unable to communicate with other children and she has limited receptive communication, her main form of speech is echolalia, she has full 1:1 at school all day and always has since starting even before she had an ehcp she wears ear defenders at school all day as she can’t cope with noise, if I was to put her socially I would say she is on the level of a 5 year old, in her annual review a few weeks ago I said I would like for her to attend special secondary school and been told basically that they don’t agree with it and think she should attend mainstream with a dsp, I disagree and only want her in a special school. I’m not willing to send her to a mainstream at all, they also said she won’t have a 1:1 anymore as it will be a “small group” but she is a danger to herself and has no awareness of danger (still runs into the road etc) i don’t know how she can go from support all day at primary which they’ve said she needs full time adult support to apparently not needing it at all. I will have to home school if I can’t get her into a special school

When you say the annual review was a few weeks ago, was that the meeting or has the whole process been completed? Did they say they would amend the EHCP? You have the right to choose a school and they should listen to you. I know you haven't got a call back yet from IPSEA but his link gives some advice for now : www.ipsea.org.uk/choosing-a-schoolcollege-with-an-ehc-plan

No they just gave their suggestion which was mainstream with a dsp as we spoke about the special schools in our borough and they are for children that are very severe which I know and agree with (my daughter has autism) but the special schools in our borough wouldn’t be suitable (there are 2 in the borough) I have found 2 outside of the borough in our neighbouring one which would be suitable as I know that you don’t have to be behind academically to attend a special school. I was given a form to apply for secondary school places a few days after the annual review and I put the 2 special schools outside of the borough and a school within our borough as it said on the form that I cannot our schools outside of the borough without at least putting a school in the borough. I made it clear that it was my 3rd choice. I’m really concerned for her mental health if she was made to attend a mainstream secondary school. I will take a look at the links thanks I still haven’t managed to speak to anyone at IPSEA.

Be aware not all SENDIASS are good, some are brilliant, but too many aren't. They receive LA funding so will ultimately toe the party line.

Have you had a draft amended EHCP? I presume not.

As per the link bumble posted, you have a right to request any of the following schools

• A maintained school or nursery (mainstream or special)
• An academy (mainstream or special)
• An institution in the further education sector
• A non-maintained special school
• A section 41 school.

Being out of borough doesn't change that.

If the school is one of the above the LA must name your preference unless they can prove one of the following:

• The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
• The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
• The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

If 1:1 is specified and quantified in section F it must be provided, if it isn't you can enforce it, via Judicial Review if necessary. What does the EHCP currently state? EHCPs should be detailed specific and quantified, nothing should be left for the school to decide. "Small group" is too vague and woolly.

You will be able to appeal if the LA don't name your preference &/or section F doesn't have the required provision.

Has DD had SALT and OT assessments?

Is the DSP one where the pupils spend the majority of time in mainstream or the majority in the unit?

That form from the LA is total nonsense. Your child has an EHCP.

Under Section 38 (3) of the Children & Families Act as PP have said you have a right to request any of the schools listed above, whether they are in or out of your LA. That means you ask for your (first choice) preferred school, not a list in order of preference.

LAs have all sorts of policies, forms and procedures, but they do not trump the law, even though they like to think they do. And the LA has no right to insist you pick a school in your LA; it is about meeting a child's needs not adhering to LA policy.

When they send the draft EHCP they should also ask you to name your preferred school. You can use the Model Letter here to respond to the draft plan as it also refers to naming the school and sets out the law in relation to this.

www.ipsea.org.uk/responding-to-a-draft-ehc-plan-model-letter-3

From what you say, I agree that your daughter would struggle in a MS secondary school, but you may need evidence from professionals to back you up, particularly if the EHCP is not detailed and specific enough.

You might need SLT to specify what is required to meet social skills needs, OT to advise around sensory issues and maybe EP too if she has not been assessed recently.

If you have reports specifying eg a calm quiet environment and classes of no more than 6, straight away that rules out the majority, if not all MS schools.

Something you need to watch out for - as this is a transition review (ie from primary to secondary) under SEND Regulation 18, the LA has a statutory duty to complete the review and finalise the EHC Plan by 15th February next year. This then gives you time to appeal if necessary.

See here:
www.ipsea.org.uk/annual-reviews-in-advance-of-a-transfer-between-phases-of-education

Make sure they stick to the statutory deadline on this. Too many LAs ignore it and then parents get to June/July and children still have no school allocated.There was a poster on here the other week fretting because her daughter still had no school. Apart from being very stressful, it also means parents have run out of time to appeal.

This is the report of the annual review I’m waiting for the copy of the ehcp,

S is completely reliant on adult support, s has had support from the same TA for a long time. This was changed but S was unable to work without her familiar adult. She can ask for help and follow class routines with trusted adult support. She needs support to organise herself for lessons.

S uses “now and next board”, “123 boards” “visual time table” and a “working for board” to support her throughout the day.

S is working at a year 3/4 level work is differentiated to her levels of understanding.

S does not engage with peers. She does not have a friendship group. Peer support is in place to facilitate play as S likes to control situations. S finds it more difficult to interact with boys.

S does not initiate conversations with peers but may repeat phrases that adults use.
S likes princesses and fairy tales. She is functioning at a younger age and previously wore princess dresses to school.

A behaviour plan has been in place but is not needed now. Staff are consistent in their approach. S needs to be given time to respond to requests. Firm boundaries work well.
S has been referred to CAHM. She has a high level of anxiety around buses and thinks people are talking about her.
S finds it difficult to express her feelings and wouldn’t say if she was unwell. Staff would need to guess if something was wrong. She sometimes smears in the toilet if she is unwell.
S may overeact in situations that she finds unfair. She may say that people are murdering her. She is benefiting from emotional coaching.
S has been on a reduced timetable in the past to manage the day more effectively. This hasn’t been needed lately
S takes part in regular sensory circuits. S does not like loud noises and self-exit in these situations. S has regular movement breaks. She has access to ear defenders at school but prefers her pink ones from home.
S does not attend assembly and eats her lunch in the medical
Room.
S has her own learning area but does access the class for some of the time. S does not yet know about her diagnosis. It is felt that she would not be able to understand it at this time.

Feel so sad writing that all down, I think the dsp is where they spend the majority of time in the unit. But the particular school has a very bad reputation in the area. They haven’t been to the school recently to asses her it’s been virtually. I’m going to fight this all the way but it’s difficult when the professional aren’t helping, I’ve heard that about sendiass but when I spoke to the lady by email she said she agreed with my concerns and said that mainstream primary is very different from mainstream secondary so she said my concerns were valid and she suggested that I wrote to the LA myself expressing my wishes? I will check out all the links posted thanks.

Do you mean these are the notes of the Annual Review meeting? Was there discussion about transition and what needed to be put in place to facilitate it?

Were amendments to the EHCP discussed?

This doesn't sound like a child whose needs are going to be met in a MS secondary. If you have to appeal are you either in a position to pay for private reports or do you think you might qualify for Legal Aid?

There is nothing to stop you writing to the LA and they must have regard to
"the views, wishes and feelings of the child and his or her parent, or the young person" (Part 3, Section 19 Children & Families Act 2014) but your case will be stronger if it is backed up by professionals.

Don't feel sad @PumpkinKlNG. Try to think positively about what progress DD has made. She no longer needs to have a reduced timetable in order to manage the school day, and she no longer needs a behaviour plan, so presumably she has learnt to behave appropriately and is able to manage being in school full time. She may not be doing what the other children are doing, but she is still making progress in her own way. Little steps but onwards and upwards.

If DD hasn't been assessed by EP, SALT and OT recently and the reports aren't up to date you can request a reassessment of needs. You could also request by a psychiatrist &/or clinical psychologist without the need to wait on waiting lists. Good up to date assessments will support your request for SS.

Does DD receive emotional literacy support?

Thanks the transition review will be in September, the reports are up to date. II spoke to sendiass the woman was brilliant she was fully on my side and said that the reason why they don’t want a special school is because of money (which I knew anyway) and being out of the borough even more because then they will have to pay for transport. She told me to not give up and that she doesn’t believe my daughter should be in a mainstream school she said the thing she has going for her which should swing it on my side is that she has 1:1 all day at school, especially being in year 5, my daughter is never left alone at any point and she is picked up by her 1:1 at the front gate (they don’t even let her into the school until the 1:1 is there (sometimes I can be stood out in the morning by the front gate for 10 minutes waiting for her 1:1 to get there as they won’t open the gate till she is) , and then she is brought out to me by the 1:1) also she said my daughter spending most of her time outside the class at her work station is considered a informal exclusion. She suggested she would write the letter to the LA for me to send and for me to just add/take away anything that’s needed. She said to look for MLD schools, (the ones in our area are SLD) hence needing to look out of the area. Feeling much more positive now!

Sorry I can't help you with the specifics, but it makes me so angry that the need for such services is so great, that it is nigh on impossible to get even through to them to have a conversation

Thank you BackforGood I never thought I would have to fight for what is best for my daughter even with a ehcp and diagnosis, I sadly still didn’t manage to get through to IPSEA but sendiass have been great so at least I don’t feel so alone now, as there really isn’t much help out there at all.

If the reports are up to date why are you waiting for CAMHS? MH therapies should be in section F, therefore they must be provided, if CAMHS can't or won't the LA must commission independent providers.

If DD isn't getting anything from mainstream and isn't coping why don't you push for a SS now rather than just for secondary.

I do think she is coping in mainstream primary because she has a heck of a lot of support, something they’ve admitted she won’t have in secondary. Also there are 650 pupils at her primary school, in the secondary they are suggesting I apply for there are 1400+ I think secondary is a very different environment, noisier, busier. Also there won’t be the same level of security and children can come and go as they please. Without a 1:1 I think she won’t be a danger to herself, she requires constant supervision. I’m also very concerned about bullying and her being targeted for being different, as she’s got older her differences have become a lot more noticeable and whilst it’s ok now in primary and the same kids have been around her since the beginning so accept her I don’t think the same can be said for secondary and kids can be cruel.

Not having 1:1 in secondary is a red herring as it must be provided if it is specified and quantified in the EHCP, however it doesn't sound like DD would cope even with 1:1.

But if DD doesn't engage with others or have friends, can't communicate with other children, isn't spending much time in the classroom, eats in the medical room, doesn't attend assembly and wears ear defenders all the time she isn't really coping or getting anything from MS.

Why are you waiting for CAMHS? MH provision should be in the EHCP.

she has a heck of a lot of support, something they’ve admitted she won’t have in secondary

Who is saying this? If her plan specifies fulltime 1:1 support then it must be provided whatever school she is in.

Local authorities are not allowed to have blanket policies; it is about meeting a child's needs.