Psychiatrist says nothing can be done for ds's autism...am I being naive and stupid?

[daisy5678]

I really hoped that something would help him with his anger. I asked about counselling, anager management and play therapy. She says it won't change how he is, because there's no deep hidden cause for his anger - it's just the autism.

Gutted, and owndering why I hadn't worked out up till now that THIS is how life is now and will ALWAYS be. Just makes me feel like giving up though. What the hell is the point of all this fighting for help if no help will actually help?

Sounds a bit sweeping to me. Yes the unthinnking anger might originate from the autism as would many other things, ie, if I had left my son to his own devices he would probablly be hugging a washing machine all day or bouncing endlessly on his trampoline, neither of which is the case now but could have been had we not challenged him. Likewise he would happily talk about the sodding cats on holiday all the time to people if we didn't 'teach' him not to. Having autism doesn't mean that you are unteachable it means that things that are regarded as 'normal' are not necessarily innate but have to be taught (such as my friend's boy who will talk endlessly and repetitively on his pet subject until you are driven bonkers and so he has to 'learn' not to do this and curb his need to do this).

My son used to (and I assume still could and may) scream the place down on a regular basis. This was down to anxiety and communication problems. Once the anxiety is reduced, strategies to divert the screaming and communication improved lo and behold - less screaming. So surely it is the case for your son. Yes he might be hitty and angry now but Something is causing that - it might not be a trigger that we readily understand but there IS a trigger somewhere. Just 'cause he's autisic doesn't mean he can't use strategies to understand his needs and manage them given time and therapy.

Don't give up hope. I have an opinion of paed's given the one who diagnosed my son
"he's in a world of his own" Her
"no he's not he listens to everything that is going on" us
"talk among yourselves about something he'd be interested in then"
Husband "I'm going out in the yellow car later" 4 Seconds elaps
"Can I come too" Son
"That's not quick enough a normal child would have been quicker" paed
Husband and me under breath "AHHHHHHHH"

All the best

I don't know how affected your son is but my son has Aspergers. At 7 he would hide under the table rocking, couldn't cope with noise/smells/outside. The NHS wrote him off. He's now 14 and has been able to go back to school due to all the work I've done with him. Kids with ASD aren't always unteachable. They can learn to cope with fears, anxieties or anger.
Get a second opinion.

Thanks for the replies. She wasn't saying I can't do anything - she talked a lot about making sure his routine gets even tighter so that he feels secure - but the school and I are doing everything we can and he's just getting more and more violent and out of control. I thought that something extra lke therapy might help but she says no, that won't stop the anger and violence.

Theres a good book about managing challenging behaviour by the NAS. Do you want a link?

look here

I also think you should get a second opinion.

DS1 has problems witrh anger managementa nd I disagree that there is nothing you can do..... talking therapies as offered by a Psych might not be the best for a child with ASD however.

there's a few things you can look at, diet is one that works for a lot- have a look at the allergy induced autism site. Another one is www.bibic.org.uk, I found they were good on anger management with my ds. They managed to get him vocalising about his temper where nobody else had done. We're also looking into taking him to a retreat centre in a year or two, but obviously that would only work for higher functioning kids- want him to learn meditative relaxation techniques.

Tightening the routine can help with anger etc but iw ould chat through with someone at the NAS as well- ime it also has repercussions in terms of narrowing what you can do yourself (again, that would depend on your son's ASD level). Visual timetables are obv good for creating the structure without imposing the walls, iyswim. The routines that matter with mine tend to impose themselves anyhow- for example, ds1 simpy cant leave the house after returning from school; ds3 will only eat if he ahs yellow plastic IKEA cutlery and a divider plate..

That is a load of shite (I am a salt who works with ASD.)
A lot depends on how his Autism manifests itself. I would suggest NAS as the first port of call.

Also, psychiatrists deal with mind problems...but autism is medical. My son is under a consultant paediatrician rather than a psych. The paed treats him as though he has a medical condition and can therefore be helped with a variety of treatments.
My son was written off at a special school with no speech or language skills but is now taking GCSEs so anything can happen!

Skip, fantastic about your son
I would argue that even medical model largely useless for peopel with Autism. A social model tends to be much more useful we find. A lot of salts for example are unhappy that we come under the NHS.In cases like this, being with Social Services or Education would be better.

"I really hoped that something would help him with his anger. I asked about counselling, anager management and play therapy. She says it won't change how he is, because there's no deep hidden cause for his anger - it's just the autism."
Sorry, but this is b*ll**s. There is always a reason for something, even if it doesn't seem apparent. It may be sensory overload, it may be frustration at being unable to communicate, it may be that he's in pain at the time with a stomach ache. But it won't kust be because he's autistic.

Absolutely. Autistic children can be happy or sad just like the rest of us. The problem is that they can't always communicate why they are happy or sad. Often once you start implementing communication methods you see changes in behaviour. DS1 has an A4 sheet of paer with a spinning wheel pinned to it. The wheel shows "I am angry, talk to me", "I am angry, leave me alone", "I am happy, talk to me" etc. He has it on his door and turns it round according to how he feels. This means we are less likely to get into confrontation.

Thanks all for your ideas which are GREAT (and I've ordered that book, dustystar - cheers).

I've calmed down a bit now and thought it through in my head and I know that it's not as simple as nothing can be done. Perhaps I just got hold of that bit in my head and took that from the appointment as the main thing. I think she just wanted me to have a reality check and stop thinking that he's miraculously become like his peers - cos I do talk a lot about how we're trying to get him to behave like other children in his class and I guess that's the point - he won't STOP being autistic, so too much pressure on him to change must be v stressful.

She did say that, after the ADOS, he would get SALT help.

I hear CBT can be useful (cognitive behavioural therapy, I think) - can't even remember where I read it!

Any opinions?

I work in a school with a resource for children with ASD and I have seen how the anger management strategies they use can help the children cope with their feelings. As bullett says, sensory overload is often a major factor, and as well as giving the children sessions in the sensory room, the staff have looked at the whole school from a 'sensory' point of view - some of the problems have been removed, but even when that's not possible it helped the teachers & TAs to anticipate things that might make a child react.

based on my own experiences of CBT, I would have thought that a child would have to be pretty articulate to benefit from CBT -how old is your child givemesleep?

He's articulate in terms of vocabulary and being very talkative...but not great at articulating feelings verbally rather than throwing/ punching things!

CBT is a tricky area. To be effective it must be tailored specifically to ASDs or it can have negative effects.

I was at a Social Skills course yesterday and after a psycholgist had spoken about a group she runs locally which includes CBT practices, one guy stood up (he has AS) and told of his experiences of being forced into CBT as part of a court order. At the end of the initial session he thought he'd done quite well, even though he'd expected himself to have difficulties with the 'thoughts and feelings' aspect. However the facilitator said she thought it unwise to continue as it could be dangerous. Apparently Tony Attwood holds the same opinion of non-specific CBT for autists.

Who is this psychiatrist?

Ed psych from the LEA??

I wonder why they won't recommend any other/more therapy?? Something to do with the budget?

Anyway, whoever it is, I would suggest getting a second opinion privately (if you haven't already done that)

I'm an old cynic whose daughter has been written off as 'unteachable' by the local ed psych at 3 yrs of age - and who now at 6 can talk, knows her letters, read a few words, knows her number till 20, can count objects to 10 and loads more...

I have decided that 'unteachable' means 'they' are incapable of teaching her, unmanageable means 'they' are incapable of managing her etc.. you get the gist...

No, it's the consultant psychiatrist at CAMHS. She's the ONLY professional I DO trust to be impartial as every other bugger involved is playing for politics and she's only ever been straight with me. I think she genuinely believes that it won't help and that I should focus on changing the world around him e.g. school placement.

Yeah, ed. psychs are far too political to tell the truth straight!

But this lady has no ulterior motive that I can see (and I'm quite cynical and good at spotting a penny pinching professional).

Partidge - what sort of anger management strategies worked? I went to a brilliant presentation the other day on ASD and there was this thing about emotional thermometers which looked interesting, even if J would have ripped it up if he still had hold of it when he got to boiling point!

I'm not sure of the details, as I don't work in the resource myself (I'm in the office & do ICT stuff)I was mainly thinking of the amazing change in one child, but I can't really give any details as it was a very specific source of anger iyswim. I'll try to find out more about the more general strategies they use.
I know they have used the emotional thermometer thing, and I think it's one of the things they use the sensory room for. I suppose it wasn't our resource head who did your presentation was it? (Initials TC?)

Nope, not the same person! Love sensory rooms - J's school considered it but have no room He loves lights - his room looks like a stage show (lava lamp, lit up globe, mood colour changing light, night light...)