How do I stop him from throwing stuff - before I feel the urge to throw HIM??

[coppertop]

Does anyone have any ideas on how to cut down on ds2's addiction to throwing things? I've stupidly let it go until now as it seemed to be one of those things that all toddlers do (ds2 is 21 months old). It's got to the point though where it's just downright dangerous. Poor ds1 has been hit by flying objects too many times and I fear that it's just a matter of time before something goes through the (closed) window or the television screen.

When he has a meltdown ds2 seems to have the strength of a child 3 times his age and so it's not just light toys that are getting hurled across the room. Ds1's chair, stool and table have all been thrown. Yesterday he got hold of a bottle at someone else's house and smashed it - narrowly missing ds1. I can see that someone's going to get hurt sooner or later.

We've tried to limit the amount of things he can get his hands on but it's not easy. We've given him light stuff to throw and also shown him throwing games but these all go out the window (literally at this rate!) when a meltdown starts.

Any ideas?

Can you get him a basket ball hoop and a ball to throw. Or another one I have heard of is a large metal bin and if he has the urge to throw tell him to throw in there. Apparently they like to hear it hit the bottom of the bin! I am not sure how much your ds understands at 21 months but it's worth giving it a go!

what triggers him off? Does he only throw when frustrated/angry or does he throw because he likes the noise/sensory side of it? DS1 throws stuff for the latter reason and I have had no luck stopping it so I'm waiting to hear other's words of wisdom....

If he's throwing in anger can you get in with a "no throwing" before he does- or maybe a "hands down" or "drop" if you don't want to use a no- (I've had problems thinking of a positive alternative to "no throwing".)

I think it's a bit of both. He throws things when he's angry and frustrated but also throws because he likes the way it feels. It's sometimes linked in with his need to put things in boxes and buckets etc and he will throw his bricks back into the box as though it were a basketball hoop IYSWIM. He'll have a brilliant aim by the time he starts doing PE at school but it's not helping us at the moment.

He doesn't seem to understand much atm. He does understand NO but not necessarily "No throwing".

You've just reminded me, BH. We gave him a big plastic bucket to do something similar with. He spent the rest of the day walking around with it over his head. It looked pretty funny though. All you could see was a big bucket with a small pair of shoulders sticking out from underneath. Come to think of it, it did muffle the noise a bit too. Instead of "Aaaaaaarrrrgggghhh!" all we heard was a kind of "Mmmmmmmppppffffh!"

How about one of those ball things with suckers on which you can throw against walls and doors (and windows too!!!!)? Just a thought cos they don't harm, just adhere to the objects (not foreheads though, sorry!). I know this problem well though Coppertop - sympathies to you and yours.

If his understanding is limited coopertop I'd avoid saying "no throwing" as he'll just hear throwing and do it all the more. I've never really managed to successfully redirect something onto a more appropriate activity- although that may be just me being crap. I've only managed to stop things before they start- which ime is difficult with throwing. sorry not much help am I? I'm now trying to give no reaction other than a very neutral "no" to throwing- but I don't really think its working as he gets enough pleasure from chucking the stuff/hearing the noise anyway. I'll carry on watching your replies!

dd went through a spate of this and it just seemed to disappear - we tried to redirect, no throwing etc... she loved to throw things through our bannister down the internal stairs - made a great noise on the wooden stairs.... think that is why she did it. SHe seemed to stop as she started and we were pleased....

BUT she has since started throwing things again.... usually shapes from her shape sorter so I get her to put them into the container but like jj and you I really I have ha dlimited success with this. I know that is no help to you but just wanted you to know that someone elses child also did this.

It looks as though I might just have to invest in a crash helmet for ds1 and hope this throwing business wears off eventually (she says, looking at the wooden bricks scattered across the floor!).

If anyone else does find the magic solution pleeeeease let me know.

I don't think there will be a magic solution CT. My ds1 (not sn though) always liked throwing things and posting things as a toddler, I remember those bricks from those walker thingies flying across the room on several occasions. He still likes throwing things even now he's 11 and loves basketball or just playing catching. Things can only get better.

Unfortunately I have the same experience as Jimjams. With the best will in the world and great intentions I don't think we have ever turned an inappropriate behaviour into a more appropriate one with shaping, these behaviours are usually just tooooo reinforcing in themselves. I understand the theory of shaping a behaviour, but in practice ????!!! DS's biggest stim has always been throwing, dropping, pouring, sprinkling and many variations inbetween. For about a year my car was a foot deep in torn up tissue paper, I had to hide all polystyrene, hide the porage and anything else that could be sprinkled. Over time the behaviours have switched, faded etc and certainly helped with toilet training! Nothing he liked better than seeing his wee going into something, usually the potty/toilet! Sorry not much help. All I can say is try very hard NOT to reinforce it as well as it being reinforcing in itself. I wouldn't say "no" or "no x...." as that is simply attention. I think just restrict access to anything obvious, reinforce other behaviour, give him something to do with his hands if poss and prompt positive behviour as Jimjams says, rather than "no X...." tell/ask him to do something rather than NOT do something. You could also try token systems, they do work but need a lot of consistency if you are targeting a specific behaviour and you would probably have to choose one specific version of this behaviour rather than the whole thing, worth a try I think.

Just asked dd's ABA supervisor about this...
She says: 1) With no words and no eye contact, use hand over hand to get him to pick up the item he has thrown PLUS MORE. If he's thrown a ball, he has to pick up three, kind of thing. Don't say anything or look at him- too reinforcing... Apparently, it works. Bit tricky with a stool or table though...
2) Create a throwing box with soft things he CAN THROW
Hope this helps

Interesting to read Davros' response about the word "no". ONe thing we have to watch with ds1 is that he doesn't do something to get us to say "no". For certain behaviours he'll actually say "an" (no) as he does it then kill himself laughing when someone says. I'm having problems explaining this to the school at the moment!

I have no SN experience with this, but my ds has always been a thrower, both in temper and as an entertaining activity.

I'm afraid any toys that are thrown simply get taken away. We say hey're going in the bin, actually we hide them for a VERY long time (I found some from when he was 3 the other day, they are going to the charity shop).

I know your ds might be too young to understand this coppertop, but it may help someone else.

jakbrown, that's known as over correction. I'm not a big fan of it as I think the children often don't see the connection.
Its hard to get people not to say No when it doesn't work or has a different effect. Although we used No, No, Prompt (and still do sometimes), we didn't actually use the word "no" and nor did many of my friends.

The problem is that he actually enjoys putting the toys back into boxes after they've been thrown/tipped out so I wonder if he might think he was being rewarded if I made it clear that he had to pick them up straight away IYSWIM. Then again if I leave a gap between the throwing and the picking up he probably won't see the connection between the two IYSWIM.

A "no" can sometimes stop him in his tracks but then it's instantly forgotten and he carries on. I'm not even sure if he realises that the NO means "no throwing". It's tricky.

Davros what do you mean by "No, No No prompt". A neutral no doesn't seem to reinforcing for ds1 at the moment but the word in general is beginning to get very funny to him (I have a feeling it is used quite firmly at school- which he absolutely loves), so I'm always on the look out for alternatives.

Ah! We haven't done 'over correction' with DD... yet. I can imagine it not having any effect with her, actually. Hope we find a solution somewhere, somehow