MMR - Trigger for autism? nagging doubt for DS2

[nicand2]

Hi, my DS1 is nearly 3 and was diagnosed 6 months ago. Looking back he was autistic from birth and the mmr didn't affect that. DS2 is now 1 and is totally different ie seems to be developing 'normally' with no signs of ASD. From the small amount of research I've done so far it seems that the MMR could be a triggering factor in children with a genetic disposition to ASD's. I don't feel that I want to take any risks tbh, are there any oter parents out there who can help?
Is it hard to get the single jabs and are there any other risks with these?

Oh it's casein by the way, so really not goats milk- though some children may be affecetd by alctose in dairy.

HAs to be rice / soya / almond milk for me and my kids.

THANK YOU!

Berolina, I know that not "overloading the immune system" is the argument given for using single vaccines vs MMR but this is really only just hypothesis. It is not proven that MMR causes autism (in fact the majority of the evidence suggests otherwise). If it can lead to autism it is only hypothesis that it is by an autoimmune mechanism - so it can only be hypothesis that a single vaccine would be safer. If MMR does lead to autism how do you know it isn't due to some component of the vaccine that is also present in the single vaccine- or just a reaction to the measles part of the vaccine? I really don't believe there is a link between measles vaccine and autism at all but I find it frustrating that people are prepared to go to all lengths to avoid the MMR and then go for single vaccines without any evidence to suggest that they are any different.

Actually Wakefiel'd theory isn't about MMR as such it is about atypical measles exposure and developed from his work with Crohns (and development following natural measles exposure). He found that if exposure to measles virus was atypical then crohn's was more likely to develop. He believes that MMR & MR represent an atypical exposure (it is not 'normal' to catch wild mumps and measles in one year for example- and if you do your chances of autism increase). There are cases of regression following single measles vaccine, but fewer have been reported.

Wakefield also believes a subset of children are at risk. Autism is a hugely diverse condition with probably many different triggers and causes. The studies which find no link have only considered autism as one thing with one cause. Utterly crazy.

Ahh hello - you're back

Thanks Yurt for the explanation - knew mine was a bit clunky

I'm not really (just couuldn't resist this one )

I couldn't mistake that style - hope things are okay with you .

Anyway I must not get into arguments about the MMR, I must not get into arguments about the MMR, I must not get into arguments about the MMR....

plus I must get the tea. So I will go away from this thread now.

LOL- incognito never gonna work there is it

and I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. You know way more than my pediatricians do! That's for darn sure!

Just got off the phone with a DAN! doctor. I phoned his office yesterday hoping to set up an appointment for my son to be seen. I was completely shocked that this doctor spent well over 40 min with me on the phone learning about my son, my concerns, etc!

We're hoping to book an appointment with him next week - you betch ya I'll bring up the topic of MMR (too late for my son cuz he has been injected before I knew better) but I am hoping that through a combination of nutrition, diet and detox we might be able to address some of the damage...

Kat
FWIW gfcf etc has helped my son enormously. He remains ASD but his abilities in almost all areas have improved enormously and his quality of life now does not compare with the hell that was his existence before we changed his diet.

sorry - that was for katendmom. computer hates me

We're also experiencing less destructive meltdowns than before we went GF, he's not on the diet atm (request of Paed who wants to test fr Coeliacs) and guess what.... Hell! HUGE meltdown alst night lasting hours, and an attempted strangualtion thsi am, with an escape onto the roof to boot.

Oh goodness peachy... for how much longer does he have to remain off the diet? If it's hurting him so badly - would your paed compromise? {{{hugs to you honey}}} I won't even attempt to guess at what day you're having today.

My guy is little - he is only 20 months but when he has a meltdown - it is all or nothing. Either he gets his way or he'll cry to the point of throwing up... It breaks me apart.

pagwatch I am so thrilled to hear about your successes! Having a child with special needs - I understand how other moms feel Cheers to both of you and my fingers are crossed for more and bigger successes in your very nearest future!

The coeliac test wont work if done haf heartedly, so November 6th IIRC.

DS1 doesn't cry ewtc until after the meltdown- he's of the totally losing it, aggression / screeching / vaulting furniture variant... normally werestrain but am PG atm so just removed other ds's to a room yesterday and let him work it off, the incidents this morning were worse but DH was in house had he been needed (Asleep as he works nights)

I see... so a bit less than 2 wks left... how long does it take for him to recover once he's off GF again? Sorry, if I'm getting into your business - just tell me to bug off!

Its OK about 2 weeks max really, the effects start to show within a day. The ahrder part os getting him to readjust- sadly things like GF bread- they're just NOT nice!

DS1 has been gluten free since he was 2. I do think that a gluten and cow's milk fed ds3 would have developed autism. The diet's quite easy these days - there's a lot more available than when we started with ds1 6 years ago.

DS1 is still severely autistic but on gluten he's a nutter!

Its like the CF stuff Yurt, when i first ahd symptoms 20 years ago it was undoable- now even Asda stock it all!
Indeed, snap to the veggie stuff- when I went camping with St johns when I was 14 it was the same meal all week because nobody knew what to make- trhere's a wonderful selection now (although my willpower wasnt as wonderful, sadly )

I agree all the info is most usefull!

Can I just ask for those parents who hae already changed DC diets, what was your first step, should I go to my GP?

I am sure my DS does hae other problems especially with his bowels, his poo is like clay and uses half a pack of wipes almost to clean him up, resulting in him getting really sore. I know this is odd because DS2 has 'normal' poo. I did talk to Health visitor and she suggested DS had just sat on the poo which squashed it an to try brown bread and fibre! hence I didn't ask again.

Personally I find GP's are no help at all- as long as you ensure there's an adeqaute diet then there's no issues at all imo. If you've never done an exclusion diet then there would be two ways to tackle this (obv for us was different as we were CF anyway)- you have the choice to go completely CF / GF immediately. if it were just ASD symptoms then i would suggest this. however, symptoms such as the poo would suggest there may be something else- so it might be worth considering a more steeped approach. I woudl trrial it over an extended epriod: 2 weeks completely milk free. A week on a more normal diet. 2 weeks completely gluten free. Thsi will tell you if there are specific dairy or glutren issues to investigate. then you can trial the GF / CF diet- NOTE: do this even if the previous weeks have been negative- theya re really testing for different things, the gf / cf is for ASD, the otehr weeks just testing for specific intolerances.

oh should just explain why we use goats milk. Ds1 reacted to soya. When we were looking at ds3's diet I spoke to Paul Shattock and he suggested trying goats milk because a) it is digested more easily (so you'll have less opioids around to cross the gut) and b) it is high in a different from of casein protein than that found in friesian cowa milk- which may or may not make a difference.

For us it works better than soya- I suspect both ds1 and ds3 can tolerate some caseiomorphine- certainly gluten has always been a bigger problem for them, or maybe part of their probem is digestive.

I found that starting with a GF diet was easier for us. DS didn't eat too many foods that had wheat in it so as long as we found him GF pretzel sticks and waffles (which was very easy - just at our local store) - he had no problem... Do I dare to say - just after a week I think we can spot a difference! I think his eye contact has improved and I think his tantrums are not as strong... Oh I so hope so!

He is also on pediatric vitamins - nothing special, just A and B vitamins, not the prescription stuff yet. We also give him probiotics because after being overloaded with antibiotics for his ear infections it really damanged his gut and other system. He had really bad and reoccuring yeast and fungal infections... I also noticed that after starting on probiotics his stool became more regular and not as loose.

Yes, the BIBIC people recommend probiotics- sam has had a few courses now, of the Holland & barratt fruit flavoured ones, he likes them.

The goats milk amkes sense Yurt- I know it affects me so I work on the presumption that what affects me will the boys. Because I have a separate Caseinr eaction anyway, life can be quitre miserable if I dont monitor that- its far worse when PG as well, can't totlerate anything whatsoever, slightest blip (eg butter on a baguette from the deli) and I have tummy pains, diarrhoea, become very withdrawn and can't focus on conversations or make eye contact (and if it affects ME like that, imagine what the boys get!). And oats make me aggressive as well, so they're a big no-no.

Hello yurt!

(and everyone else)