MMR - Trigger for autism? nagging doubt for DS2

[nicand2]

Hi, my DS1 is nearly 3 and was diagnosed 6 months ago. Looking back he was autistic from birth and the mmr didn't affect that. DS2 is now 1 and is totally different ie seems to be developing 'normally' with no signs of ASD. From the small amount of research I've done so far it seems that the MMR could be a triggering factor in children with a genetic disposition to ASD's. I don't feel that I want to take any risks tbh, are there any oter parents out there who can help?
Is it hard to get the single jabs and are there any other risks with these?

I too believe that MMR was not a trigger for my Son but Id think twice before giving him a booster or giving any future children the MMR. There are so many people who have had children triggered by MMR. I believe that some children are genetically predisposed and something in the environment can trigger the Autism.

I dint know what area you are from but you can get single jabs done a Breakspear hospital in Hemel Hamstead I dont think its cheap though. I dont know too much about the risks but I think the argument for all in one jabs are less risk of infection.

it is easy to get singles jabs but you have to pay for them and they're not cheap

jabs.org.uk can give you information on private clinics

you will NOT be able to get them on the NHS

not vaccinating is also a possible route

try doing a search on 'jimjams' as poster and mmr or vaccinations as search term ... she had much information that you might find of interest

and for one person, I don't think I would MMR a sibling of a child with autism

Hi,
I had measles when i was ten and belive me it isnt nice,im slightly deaf in my right ear i feel its to do with measles. My ds2 is ASD/ADHD. he had the mmr when he was four and def showed signs of autism way before then in fact there are four children within the family with asd so i belive it is very much genetic and no evidence supports the mmr causing asd.
I hope that helps you make an informed decision for your child from both sides of the fench so to speak.

I personally don't believe that the MMR is related to autism. However if you do take that view, I have never understood why single jabs are thought to be safer. There have been no tests done to show this and given that the mechanism by which MMR is supposed to cause autism is not understood, it is difficult to be sure that the single jab would be any better.

Thanks for your replies! There so much info out there, it feels a bit like wading through treacle!

I don't mind spending the money but just not sure if the single jabs are safer or perhaps less safe in different ways.

I didn't think twice about getting DS1 done but then we had no idea there was any autism in the family, now we do know it feels like we could be putting DS2 at risk...

what to do???

DS3 ahd his MMR before DS1 was diagnosed and I am certain MMR asn't a factor in ds1's HFA, however DS1 is almost certainly ASD and further along the spexctrum at that (there are a few otehr syndromes theya re considering). he ahs never had his booster. I still am not convinced in a link between AD and MMR but its a chance I cant take.

Yes that's it Peachy - a chance I can't take.

I don't know for certain that DS2 won't be dx later on but the signs indicate that he hasn;t got ASD so far. If I do MMR and then he's diagnosed later i will always wonder 'what if' and I'm not sure I can cope with that doubt.

Hi,if they is asd within the family its a 75 per cent chance another will be also especially siblings.The only other condition that can cause asd is tublerous sochlerios(soz speeling).You will know by patches on the skin that are not similar size and place.All five of mine have had it including boasters.Its my ds2(child three)that has asd.adhd.His elder brother is adhd both conditions closely related.My other three children are fine.(twins included). Only you can make the decision at the end of the day.

The actual stats regarding ASd in siblings aren't certain- as I am pregnant we've spoken to several professionals and been quoted between 20 and 80 per cent.

Peachy - your last post is interesting, part of the coming to terms with ASD dx for me was that we were unsure about going for a 3rd child. Me and DH are in talks at the moment as I just feel I can't rule out wanting another child as we'd planned in a few years. I didn't realise the odds could be anywhere between 20 -80%, I just assumed they were higher.

Ok well no statistical value here at all but .....
DS1 perfectly NT
DS2 developing normally but bad reaction to MMR and various other issues re other vaccines and now profoundly ASD
DD born when DS2 aged 7 and after YEARS of observing DS2 and trying to figure what i think happened. DD therefore given no vaccines at all. DD now aged 5 with no ASD traits or issues whatsoever.
And FWIW although DH and i were only happy to try for another babe when we realised that we would all cope fine with another child with issues I never had any concerns about DD as I knew we would reject vaccines.

This will be our 4th, we have one with HFA, one with a probable forthcoming dx but some doubt as to the real causes of his SN, and one who is NT. We'd always wanted 4, and decided that we weren't going to let an evil thing like ASD change our plans and lives any more than it had already forced us to.

Am being careful- I have to limit my casein intake anyway but am totally casein free atm as that seems to be a factor with ds1, if ica nt breastfeed or baby fails to thrive as DS1 did on BM then we will feed soya milk formula. And we will remain gluten free for baby for the first 3 years- the ASd timescale.

I know its going to be a hard time at first, not least because DS3 was a regression at almost 3 so there will be some panics I expect, but ultimately my Dh and I weren't ready to quit yet.

Good for you peachy. I am sure your family of four will be a fabulous thing .
We weren't done until we had three. I am clearly not as brave as you .
Good luck with all things to come !

We have also made the decision of no vaccines at all for DS2 who is 6 weeks old now.

DS1 is 4.5 years old and is severely autistic, although both myself and DH agree that he was born with autism and it was not regression after the MMR.

That being said, we strongly believe this could mean that DS2 (who has Downs Syndrome) is predisposed to ASD, indeed we feel this is the case for any future siblings and therefore are unwilling to risk anything that could trigger it, so to speak.

Talked to DS2's health visitor and Paeditrictian so far about our decision and surprisingly enough there wasn't the pressure I thought there would be (I wonder if our GP will be the same?).

Best of luck with your decision.

I am pretty sure that the MMR was a 'contributary trigger' to DS2's autism. We didn't notice anything different about him until he was about 2, but when we look back at family videos it's clear that he began to change very very gradually from 16 months old. He didn't regress; he just stopped developing and became slowly more and more introverted. On the videos you can see his facial expression changing - more 'fixed' and solemn, eyes less sparkly. It wasn't until after I'd realised this and pored over videos that I rang the GP to check on the date he'd had his MMR (I had to fill in a form) - and I was shocked to find out it had been at 16 months. Then I remembered - we'd put it off lots of times because he had constant chest infections.

I don't for a minute think the MMR caused DS2 to become autistic - but I do think it may have been a major trigger. And so neither he nor DS1 (who has AS traits) have had their booster.

Can I just ask for those of you who didn't immunise further siblings or give a booster was it because that you felt the single jabs were still a risk and is this the general opinion?

TBH I hadn't considered not immunising at all but it's certainly making me think.

I have not found a jab yet that i think I could give safely given the ingredients ( ie thimerosal or combination vaccines) and my kids predisposition to weird immune response.

I have refused all jabs for all kids since and don't intend to give them any until they are old enough to take over such decisions.
I will look at vaccines for overseas travel as and when it occurs but would avoid travel if needs be until youngest was older.
Does that make sense.

I am not sure that it is impossible on the NHS...The surgery we were registered with in Central London offered the 3 jabs. (In Lamb's Conduit). This was 3 years ago mind...

Single jabs aren't really an option we have considered for financial reasons more than anything else. TBH the decision not to give the booster wasn't one we sat down and amde- it just happened naturally. The first few appointments we were sent weren't any use, and we'd now have to actively make an appointment. DS3 isn't in school yet though, so we have time I guess.

I have a cousin who is asd, regressive(I think) he developed normally, spoke early, walked early... toilet training no problem, my aunt feels very strongly that mmr was the trigger/cause... my cousin is 17 now

my dd got the pre-school booster mmr(she would have been at least 4 and a half) but not the first one... I wanted to wait until I thought she had reached an age that if mmr could be a contributory problem, I would know how dd was developing iyswim...

my ds is 3, he has asd "traits"... possible speech disorder(salt wants me to see her when she gets back from hols to discuss this)... I am going to delay getting the mmr for him, just in case, we were messed around quite a lot with his other injections and tbh I do feel uneasy about it all, am I doing the "right" thing? well I don't know, but I am doing the best thing I can think of....

I am reading a book now (suggested by another MNer) called "Children with Starving Brains" by Jaquelyn McCandless. She very much supports the theory that genetic susceptibility activated by "triggers" such as heavy metals in vaccines can lead to children developing various conditions, including ASD. Our son is 20 months old and I think has been impacted by MMR. He was given it at 14 mnth and we did notice some regression in his case (for example, he went from making sounds like "mama" "dada" to nothing). He is now getting OT therapy and has been diagnosed with Sensory Integration Dysfunction, Language development delay, etc... We're waiting to be seen by a developmental pediatrician - don't know if he'll be given a dx at this young age... My suggestion would be to really weigh in options... if your child is in a daycare/ nursery (like ours) then not vaccinating at all might not be an option but I will never allow them to give him more than 1 vaccine at a time and will most likely skip the MMR booster all together... I bit too late of a realization for us but hopefully not too late for other babies!

DS1 severely autistic

DS2 now 5 not vaccinted at all, no gluten until 2 now fine

DS3 nw almost 3 not vaccinated at all, no gluten still, goats rather than cows milk (we know he has a problem); Dodgy start. Now developing normally- big difference since switching to goats milk,

I would vaccinate if I thought the risks outweighed the benefits. I'm happy with my normally developing unvaccinated children.

We gave ds1 (NT) the first MMR against our - well, my - better judgement. He was fine, but in retrospect I feel we took an unacceptable gamble (there are some slight auto-immune issues in the family). He is not having the 'booster' - especially not as the Germans like to do it earlier than in the UK, which makes the potential for regression from it that bit higher. As he is going to kindergarten soon, we have had a blood test done to check his immunity, so that he could have a single measles 'booster' if necessary (Saker - MMR gives the immune system more to cope with at once, which makes the risk higher, although there is still a smaller risk with single and indeed naturally acquired measles). (His immunity to measles is fine, but the mumps component seems not to have worked well - I believe this is a pretty common problem with the MMR).

Ladies, not to highjack the thread but I see lots of references regarding eliminating gluten and/or cow's milk... Did you test your kids first to see if they have sensitivity or did you just take them off gluten/ cow's milk ?cold turkey??

Also, is goat's milk ok or do you have to go completely off diary? Like rice or almond milk?

THANK YOU!

Mine have a cows milk intolerance anyway (as do I)- that was an issue long before ASD entered the equation.

Gluten was a recommendation of BIBIC, they suggested a total elimination for 3 weeks as a tral- the results were wotrth keeeping it going.