ABA and part-time mainstream school inclusion - has anyone done it?

[Homsa]

... and if yes, how?

I'm preparing my case statement for a SENDIST appeal and need to make up my mind what to ask for.

We want part-time home programme, part-time school attendance supported by a shadow.

Should I ask to send my own tutors to school? Would the tutors get paid as much as an LSA for the hours they do at school? Are there any equal opportunities issues I need to be aware of?

Or, should I ask to train up the school's LSA? Could the LSA attend workshops in my home?

Or, should I ask that they put LSA-slash-tutor into the statement and then negotiate the details with the school?

Any advice most welcome!

No advice really but we have been doing part time ABA, part time special school since beginning of term.The authority just agreed it, but think they might try to push for DS2 to be in school more at his review in November. We took lots of video of the home programme to the initial meeting, and also ABLLS data, programme content details etc.

I'll be very interested in replies to this as we're thinking of transferring DS2 to m/s next year. I'd love it to be with a shadow, but my tentative enquiries so far haven't been met with huge enthusiasm.

Hm, same here, I recently had a meeting with the school's SENCO and came out feeling completely deflated... I think schools hate the loss of control more than anything. If we don't win the tribunal then I think there is very little chance of agreeing a "deal" with the school.

You've done well though to get the special school to agree to part-time! Do they cooperate in any way with your home programme? And why are you thinking about changing to mainstream? (it took me a long time to make the ms vs special school decision, it was mostly based on the fact that DS is now observing and imitating peers and needs NT role models)

They cooperate in that we try to coordinate learning targets between home and school, via home/school book. And they're very positive about the programme. The teacher did say when she came here that she would be keen to buy ABLSS and use it with the whole class. Our ABA supervisors have also offered her a phone consultation (they're based in the States). It's all gone a bit quiet on that front though - but I have a meeting on Monday and will mention it again.

The m/s vs special decision is SO hard isn't it? I'm thinking of m/s for a number of reasons. DS2 is the youngest in his class but the second most verbal. The most verbal child isn't autistic and spends half the week at m/s. So I worry both about role models and about whether the classroom is 'language-rich' enough for him. However, unlike your DS, he still doesn't take much notice of other children so don't know whether the role-model concern is valid or not. If he was at m/s he would get 1:1 and therefore more intensive teaching.

But still don't know really...

I know many, many people who have done this and it has always been very dependent on both the school and the LEA. Some have sent in shadows from home paid for via home prog (funded by LEA), some have sent in shadow with agreement sometimes with private school and paid themselves, some have NOT been allowed to send in their own person but one of their team has applied for and got the job, some have LSA imposed on them.... then it depends whether that person wants to participate in the team/home prog or not and it has been mixed. I think the first port of call is to put out feelers with prospective school. Are there any other ABA families locally who have already done this? If a school has had a positive experience I've known them be quite willing to take in more ABA children with shadows. I would definitely probe schools first before going to LEA unless you have a very sympathetic EP who understands ABA and can help you approach schools.

Thanks sphil & davros! I had some discussions with the school about sending in our own tutors and they were initially quite open to the idea, but when I told them later that I had appealed to SENDIST and asked for part-time home prog, part-time ms school to be specified in the statement, the SENCO said she was "disappointed" and they wouldn't support this.

I followed this discussion up with a letter to the head of the school with some more info about ABA, how it's worked really well for DS, and how ABA would not be disruptive for the school but rather the opposite. I thought it was really well worded and persuasive, but then today I got a letter from the LEA saying that my letter to the head had caused a bit of a stir as it seemed to imply that the school had to integrate their LSAs into our ABA programme even before the tribunal hearing, which obviously they don't ... maybe it wasn't so well worded after all!
If we win the appeal, and they order the LEA to specify tutor support at school, then the LEA and the school will HAVE to comply though, won't they??? Is it highly unlikely that the tribunal would do this if the school and LEA are against it?

sphil, your point about having a "language-rich" environment is a very good one that I hadn't really thought about. Definitely something my DS needs as well. His language has recently moved one from being purely functional ("I want juice") to absorbing people's idiosyncratic expressions - today he told me "I like that indeed", which I something I'd never say!!!

Do you think it's the part time bit the school objects to, rather than the ABA/shadow part? I only ask because the m/s school we're considering is very anti part-time. I know if we decide to send DS2 there, it'll have to be full time. I've discussed ABA with them at length and they're very positive about it. The SENCO wants to come and observe at home and seems sure that they can work 'along those lines' at school. I'm pretty sure this wouldn't extend to a shadow though - but I haven't mentioned it yet. Thought I'd make up my mind first, get them onside and then gradually persuade them round to my way of thinking... I live in hope...

Your DS's language sounds great - DS2 is still at the functional one-word level, but 16 months ago he had almost no functional language. Could your DS speak before he started ABA?

Yes is think it's the part-time bit that they don't like. I think they're quite interested in ABA as we can show that it works well for DS, but frankly, unless they withdraw him from the classroom for several hours a day, I don't see how they can "do ABA" with him. There is no way they could teach him completely new skills in a busy classroom (generalising mastered ones is a different matter!). I don't think they're keen on the ABA consultant have a say either.

If you're a good negotiator I think your plan could work (I'm not... ) I know a mum who has managed to run a part-time ABA programme by the back door - her DS is officially full-time, but does sessions as home which is then labelled as being "educated off premises" (or something like that) when there is a need for teaching in a quiet environment. He is also "ill" a lot

DS had some 50+ single words and a few 2-word phrases when we started nearly a year ago. His progress was steady but not overwhelming until about 3 months ago, when something just "clicked". This also led to a reduction in his OCD traits - today I swapped his car seat with that of his sister and there were no tears, no screaming, nothing! 6 months ago that would have caused a major meltdown.

We've been doing ABA for almost exactly the same amount of time - I went on the Growing Minds course last September, started by myself after that, then officially with Growing Minds since April. How old is your DS? DS2 is 5 on Friday.

I like your friend's story - it's really how we're doing things with the special school atm. The m/s will be a tougher nut to crack though - it's had two Ofsteds in a row with 'outstanding' for everything - deservedly so, imo. But it does mean that they feel the way they do things is right - so harder to persuade them to do something out of the ordinary.

sphil, my DS is 4.3, and due to start in school in January. The school has also had an "outstanding" Ofsted report and got special praise for their SN provision and inclusive ethos, which is of course why we chose it, but not so great when you need to "rubbish" the school in order to win the tribunal!

Glad you're back electra, hope you're feeling better! Can I ask how the LEA pay your tutors? Is it via the school? And how much do they pay - do they get the standard LSA rate for the hours they work at the school, and a different rate for sessions at home? Did you have to argue with the LEA about equal opportunities, insurance etc.? Any tips? (sorry, loads of questions again, but have to send the case statement off in a few days' time...)

Thanks for your help! xx

i don't normally read the daily mail but there was an article in yesterdays edition
re: flexi schooling and how there is a loop hole in the law and schools can not refuse/object to a specific request...
might be worth looking into that- wish i had known a couple of years ago

Thanks chatee, that sounds very interesting! I thought it was up to the head teacher to grant or refuse "absence with leave". Can't find the article on the web unfortunately, but will ask around!

Thread hijack - good to see you Electra .Put out a call for you a while back as I've lost yr e-mail address, but don't think you saw it. Wanted to swap school experiences!