Please or to access all these features

SN children

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

Advice needed from parents of kids with Down's Syndrome

84 replies

KatyH · 02/09/2007 23:31

I'm due dc2 in Jan 2008. I had a termination at the beginning of the year for anencephaly so was keen this time round to know if there were any neural tube defects. Anyway, had the [stupid feckin] AFP test to check for spina bifida and it came back high risk for down's...! Hadn't paid much attention to the fact it tested for that which was stupid as I didn't really want to know. My risk is 1 in 129 which I know logically is pretty low and we have refused the amnio because we would never terminate a baby with DS (it was bad enough doing it for a condition incompatible with life). However, by nature I am a bit of a control freak and feel that I would like to prepare myself for the possibility that I am the 1 in 129.

Basically, I would like your advice on what to expect if I do have a baby with DS. How is it different from having a baby without DS (if it is at all)? In my head I imagine many of the difficulties probably come later in life with schooling and trying to enable them to live as independent a life as possible...but I'm probably being very ignorant now! I've just been a little worried by people's comments on our 'bravery' and being 'able to cope' and it got me wondering...is it really that difficult? What would be the main thing(s) you would advise another parent to prepare themselves for?

We did have the detailed scan which showed no other markers of DS, so at least I could be fairly confident that if the baby does have DS it should be generally physically healthy (assuming all else goes well).

Sorry, this is rather long-winded All words of wisdom gratefully received

P.S. Sorry, I'm posting this as I'm about to go to bed (very rude of me - but I rarely get a chance to go on MN before 11pm!) so will most likely check in again tomorrow.

OP posts:
sharonkitten · 03/09/2007 07:45

hi Katy

I am mum to Tanzie who is 2.5yrs old and has DS (see www.constanzesmith.com). You are very welcome to email me offlist [email protected] though am going away for a few days so might not reply to you immediately

We have been lucky that (so far!) Tanzie hasnt had any health issues, therefore life hasnt been all that difficult having a baby with DS, in fact she has such a big personality that life with her is pretty fantastic and she makes all the extra appointments/support she needs more than worthwhile. I dont think about the future much, as i know we will/she will be fine and there is no point worrying yet

Re your 'risk' well I know someone who had a risk of 1 in 4 and her baby did not have DS. I had a 'risk' of 1 in 3120 and Tanzie did. I also spoke to a lady just yesterday who the DSA put me in touch with who had a v high risk for DS and she had the amnio. Her results came back fine.

Re 'being able to cope' i think sometimes people say that without really thinking. that said, i would be a rich lady if i had £1 for every time someone said it to me ;)
I dont think i 'cope' i dont think i have to cope. My daughter is adorable and i adore her and spending time with her, as does everyone who meets her
and I am definitely not brave (and nor do i have any need to be)

Sorry, need to rush off, have bags to pack.... email me anytime you like

Sharon x

gess · 03/09/2007 20:17

Did they measure the nasal bone? Apparently that's a pretty good marker.

Can;'t help you with life with a child with DS, but can say that you do adapt to SN, and it's not bravery etc- it's your child, you love them, and that comes before anything else. Take care xxxx

needmorecoffee · 03/09/2007 20:29

I'd agree with what Gess says. You adapt and you love your child. 10 years ago I would see parents with kids with cerebral palsy and wonder how they coped. Now I have a 3 yo with severe quadraplegic cerebral palsy. She can't speak, roll, sit or move any limbs but she has a huge personailty and I wouldn't be without her for all the money in the universe. The bond we have and the love I feel for her more than outweighs the hardship. Of course days are hard and sometimes I weep but I'd never be without her. Its not bravery, its love for your child.

gess · 03/09/2007 21:30

I think something that a lot of people don't realise (I'm not sure that I did before ds1) is that you love your disabled child every bit as much as you love your non-disabled children. Everything else follows.

thomcat · 03/09/2007 22:01

Hi Katy, just about to go to bed so will post tomorrow when I have more time.
Just wanted you to know your post has been seen and I'll be back.

My eldest, Lottie has Down's syndrome and I'll be back to tell you all about being her mum tomorrow, ok.

TC x

KatyH · 03/09/2007 23:21

Thanks for all your messages so far, it's been very reassuring. As much as I hate to admit it I do worry that I would find it difficult to love a child with DS . My DD had horrendous eczema as a baby and I had quite bad PND. As a result I sometimes found myself resenting her and being bitter that I couldn't just have a 'normal' baby. I'm so ashamed of this and one of my real worries is that the same will happen with a baby with DS (if I can't cope with eczema, how will I cope with DS?!).

I would like to think it happened not because I'm a shallow and vacuous person upset at not having a perfect baby, but that it was a reflection of the terrible existence we had together i.e. the two of us would spend most of the day crying, her because she was itchy and uncomfortable and me because I could do nothing to help and was knackered. However, it does prey on my mind and I suppose that's why I'm trying to prepare myself for what life might be like.

Essentially my biggest worry is that I'll be a crap mother to a child with DS (I'm well aware that I'm not the selfless maternal type!). Anyone I have known who has a child with special needs seems so patient, dedicated and willing to sacrifice...whereas I think I'm essentially a bit of a selfish cow! I suppose that's why I've been worried by the comments about coping and being brave because I'm not sure I'm that strong. I'm therefore very reassured that you don't need to be particularly brave and it comes with the love you have for your child

I think my dh thinks I'm a bit mad for putting myself through all this anguish for what is a 0.77% risk but the odds really haven't been on my side this year and I know what it's like to be the 1 in 'however many' Also Gess apparently the nasal bone is only a good marker between 11-14 weeks, at which point we weren't aware of the higher risk. However, I have spent many a moment since scrutinising the booking scan pics and I'm pretty sure I can see one - I've become something of an amateur sonographer recently!

Thanks again for the wise words

xx

OP posts:
gess · 03/09/2007 23:37

I'm a selfish cow as well. My mum tells me it;s ok to get cross with ds1 (severely autistic) sometimes

DS1 had very severe eczema as a young(ish) baby - we were wet wrapping, and on every other day visits to the dermatologist at one stage. At about that time he became autistic (although we didn't know at the time- the same thing triggered both). At that time the eczema was way more of a PITA than his SN/learning difficulties.

TBH I don't really find dealing with ds1 as such difficult- it's fitting him into the rest of the world. We still have a great relationship- we're very close, but he can't (for example) queue- but him kicking off because he can't queue results in me getting cross with the surroundings and the people in front, not him, so it doesn't affect our relationship as such. Does that make sense? Ultimately though, even when you hit a bad patch, you still get to watch them asleep and that's enough Love does make it all bearable.

To other people it looks like coping and being brave, but to us it's just our reality. Life is interesting. I;ve made some excellent friends through SN as well- it's a real bonder......

eidsvold · 03/09/2007 23:59

I have a 5yo dd1 with downs syndrome and want to echo everything everyone else has said - especially about the selfless etc. I am not the most selfless maternal type BUT there are times when you can't be selfless - for the good of your child.

I have three dds and adore them all.

Dd1 was born with a heart defect that was operated on and repaired with two open heart surgeries. She has not looked back. In fact she seems to be healthier than the average child. She misses very little kindergarten etc and I know that a lot of illness has gone around here this year and we seem to have managed to miss it all.

Day to day - tbh - she needs the same as the others. I found making the little things like therapy activities etc a part of our play and our day rather than seeing it as - right now we have to do therapy - made it easy.

Compared to dd2 - dd1 as a baby was soooo easy to care for - even with the things we needed to do prior to her surgery.

She attends a mainstream kindergarten and is off to mainstream school next year. She also attends a local special education unit. The only other thing she needs is regular medical check ups - every 3 - 6 months - ENT, Eyes, paediatrician and annual cardiac appts.

I knew my dd1 would have ds before she was born and whilst there was some fear of hte unknown - really as others have said - this was our babe - our firstborn and we love her - she is part of this mad family.

What causes me the most stress and grief - other people - their ignorance, their unwillingness to understand and that sort of thing.

You will spend time being an advocate for your child - BUT I am no more an advocate for dd1 than I am for dd2 and dd3. That is my job as a mum special needs or not.

Not sure what else you want to ask - have tried to explain how it is different BUT I really don't think as a family we are that different to any other family.

eidsvold · 04/09/2007 00:00

A good source of information we found was the DSA -UK. They sent out lots of information and talked with us over the phone.

website here

have a pic of dd1 on my profile - she was five recently.

needmorecoffee · 04/09/2007 07:31

Hi Katy. I'm not the selfless sacrificing type either. Loving DD2 (severeCP) doesn't mean I don't feel cross when she's awake at 2am or anguished when she has a seizure or fed up with my lack of normal life like I am at the mo. She's in hospital and I'm busing back and forth and just want a normal life.
DS1 had eczema as a baby and that was awful too - I have 4 kids - and would call my husband home from work because I'd had enough!
I feel like a bad mother often - heck, my 15 lives elsewhere but when you get a SN, any child, you get on with it and you acknowledge the normal emotions of fustration, greif, resentment of 'extra' things, jealousy of others who appear to have piss easy lives with their 'normal' children.
I had PND too and am still on happy pills.

If your child does have DS or another special need (and to be honest, there's actaully a high risk of something else than DS from your statistic) then you'll do just fine.
Thinking of statistics, having a child with cerebral palsy is a 0.6% chance and that can't be tested for and no-one thinks of that particular risk!

thomcat · 04/09/2007 11:37

Hi Katy

I have to pick up immediately on your comment that you are worried you'd find it hard to love a child with DS. That would be impossible. First of all this is you child, you love them unconditionally. Secondly, it is only Down?s syndrome! People with DS are exactly the same as you and I, they just have 1 extra chromosome and that makes learning to do things take a bit longer. Other than that, esp as babies, there is no difference. My DD's differences only really began to show when she started school. And we get so much support. She's the sweetest, most endearing, funny, cheeky, charismatic fun little person I know, and it's not just me saying that.

She brings out the best in people. Everyone, and I mean everyone loves Lottie. She's everyone's favourite. My friends adore her, people in the street are drwan in by her, and not because she has Down's and they feel sorry for her but because she has a fab smile, she loves life and finds joy in the smallest things and is charming and funny and sweet and you can't help but be touched by her.

Take Saturday, we were in Clarks buying her shoes and she was so happy to be having her feet measured and was saying to the man 'thank you man, thank you, ohh look man, new shoes, nice, thank you, ohh look 2 shoes, wow, nice, lovely, thanks you man'. He was only abut 19/20 and he went from awkward teen to soppy, laughing young man who was saying 'thank you Charlotte' by the end of it.

Then as we left she charged straight into the local butchers. She went up to the counter and asked the butcher 'what's that' to which he replied beef' then she asked ?what?s that man? to which he replied lamb cutlets, and so on and then Lottie said after about 5 of these things 'sausages please man' and I was saying 'come on stop, we've got sausages at home, let's go' and the butcher said 'not these very special sausage you haven't. How many would you like young lady?' and she replied '3 please man' so he wrapped up 3 sausages, came round to her side of the counter and gave them to her. She kissed his thigh (which is where she came up to) and said 'thank you man' and steamed off out of the shop, sausages over her arm!
So, so typical.
And I love it!

She makes it so, so easy to love her!

Yes it's hard, yes it's tiring, that's being a mum right, what child is easy? But the rewards are amazing.

I'm tired and sometimes stressed but I'm also the luckiest person in the world to have her in my life and I thank God every day for her. I celebrate her and wouldn't change anything about her.
Well OK, I might make her slightly less stubborn and strong willed!

If someone had told me that I was going to be a mum, ages 30, and that my child would have Down?s syndrome and I?d not only cope but find nothing out of the ordinary with the whole situation, that I?d just keep living life as before only happier, more tired but happier, I?d have said you were mad. But now here I am, Lottie will be 6 at the end of the year, Eve will be 2 and I?m expecting number 3 in 3 weeks. Life?s really good, and it just keeps getting better!

Going to go and try and find you the article written by Simon Barnes on his child with DS and you should read every word of it, it echoes how myself and MANY other parents to children who have DS feel. He hits the nail on the head with every word.

TC x

thomcat · 04/09/2007 11:42

oh and btw, (like that post wasn't long enough!!)

patient - not even slightly.

dedicated - to what, just getting on with the job of being a mum? All mum's are dedicated to being a mum, having a child with DS requires no additional dedication.

willing to sacrifice - I've sacrificed NOTHING. I've got back 100 times more than I've put in.

Mums who have children who have specail needs are just that, mums, whose children happen to have special needs.

Right - off to find that article you have to read

thomcat · 04/09/2007 11:44

PLEASE read this

thomcat · 04/09/2007 12:04

Things from the article that really jumped out at me:

The human imagination can do many extraordinary things. But we can?t imagine love.
The great stories of literature are about meeting and falling in love, about infidelity, about passion. They are seldom about the routines of married life and having children.

We can imagine dramas and turmoil.But what no one can imagine is the day-to-day process of living with things and getting on with the humdrum job of loving. We can imagine only the beautiful and the terrible. We are drama queens, and our imaginations are incapable of giving us any help about coping from day to day.

So no, I couldn?t imagine what it was like to live with a child who had Down?s syndrome. I could imagine only the dramatic bits: the difficulties, the people in public places turning away in shock and distaste, the awfulness of a child who couldn?t say his own name.

It?s not a matter of they, it?s a matter of him. I don?t have a child with Down?s syndrome: I am Eddie?s father. There is a huge difference between the two things. The first is almost impossible to deal with, the second is the way I live from day to day. I don?t even think about it much.

I don?t want to sound too matter-of-fact here, any more than I want to sound saintly. Of course it?s difficult sometimes. That?s true for any parent and, God knows, many parents have more difficult times than Cindy and I do. I don?t, above all, want to give the impression that everything is easy because I am such a sane, balanced and admirable person. I am none of those things. I?m just a parent, playing the hand I?ve been dealt as best I can.

Some bits are hard, some bits are easy, some bits are fun, some bits are a frightful bore. That?s true of life with Eddie, it?s also true of life with Joe. But you don?t even begin to break it up into categories: it is the one endless, complex business of being a parent. You don?t go into parenthood to make sure that the benefits outweigh the deficits: you go into it out of ? brace yourself but no other word will do ? love.

I know that there will be many harder things to face as he grows older. No doubt we will take these things in the order in which they come. We can imagine a few horrors, of course, but we will live through the actual events day by day. And we will continue with other important tasks such as giggling and playing ball and providing hats and dealing with a world that can?t imagine the dreadful fate of being a parent to a child with Down?s syndrome.

What is it like to have Down?s syndrome? How terrible is it? Is it terrible at all? It depends, I suppose, on how well loved you are. Like most other conditions of life. Would I want Eddie changed? It?s a silly question but it gets to the heart of the matter. Of course you?d want certain physical things changed: the narrow tubes that lead to breathing problems, for example. But that?s not the same as ?changed?, is it? If you are a parent, would you like the essential nature of your child changed? If you were told that pressing a button would turn him into an infant Mozart or Einstein or van Gogh, would you press it? Or would you refuse because you love the person who is there and real, not some hypothetical other?

I can?t say I?m glad that Eddie has Down?s syndrome, or that I would wish him to suffer in order to charm me and fill me with giggles. But no, I don?t want his essential nature changed. Good God, what a thought. It would be as much a denial of myself as a denial of my son. What?s the good of him, then? Buggered if I know. The never-disputed terribleness of Down?s syndrome is used as one of the great justifications for abortion: abortion has to exist so that we don?t people the world with monsters. I am not here to talk about abortion ? but I am here to tell you that Down?s syndrome is not an insupportable horror for either the sufferer or the parents. I?ll go further: human beings are not better off without Down?s syndrome.

Down?s syndrome is not the end of the world. In fact, for me it was the beginning of one.

I am not here to make judgments on those who have gone for termination, being unwilling to cope with something that they could not imagine. I am here to tell everybody that Eddie is my son and he?s great.

I live in a nice house in the country, I keep five horses and as a family we are comfortably off. For all these things people envy me. But I have a child with Down?s syndrome and for that, people pity me. And I am here to say: wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. I am not to be pitied but to be envied.

Well said Simon, well fucking said!

Blu · 04/09/2007 12:16

What a brilliant article.

And TC - I can read your 'Adventures Of Lottie' til the cows come home.

KatyH, I am not the parent of a child with DS and have no experience. But I can tell you that in an office upstairs from me, right now, are 3 adults who have DS and they are running their own dance company (with a little help from an administrator) and they present fantastic professional dance performances all by people with DS and some other learning difficulties.

thomcat · 04/09/2007 12:22

Hi Blu. It is an amazing article. I sat there the first time I read it and just kept shaking my head in disbelief at how this man was putting into words, so perfectly, everything that I had felt and was feeling. I kept reading bits out to DP who had already read it and he was saying 'i know, i know' as in, yes it's that exactly isn't it.

This dance co sounds fab. You'll have to let me have info on their next performaance.

thomcat · 04/09/2007 12:27

I can't shut up now!

Lotbags started back at her (mainstream) school yesterday. It took us so long to get through the playground as she's known by so many kids in all years!

Kids who had left but were with parents dropping off younger siblings were all running up to say hi to her. At one point she had a semi circle of girls round her, all of whom have now left, all saying 'hi Charlotte' and bending down to her a bit and she took a corner of her skirt in each hand and did a curtsey!

Then she charged off until she was stopped again by a boy, aged about 9 or 10 and as he stopped to say hi she took his hand, gave it a huge smacker and then off she went waving, shouting 'byeeeeee' over her shoulder!

Blu · 04/09/2007 12:34

I think his thing about the essential nature of the child you love is so clear. Excellent writing, and wonderful advocacy.

I must admit that I would fear anything happening to Ds which took away his essential nature - something that meant that he couldn't be who he is...and there are other conditions that rob in that way.

I think what you have often said is important too - that you are an expert on Charlotte, not an expert on DS.

I will start to publicise performances by professionals with SN as and when I know about them...it needs to be seen and enjoyed more!

thomcat · 04/09/2007 12:41

Exactly Blu, I have no idea really what it's like to have a child with Down's syndrome! I know what it's like to live with Lottie though

KatyH · 04/09/2007 21:22

Wow...what can I say? Thank you for all your eloquent and moving responses, they are exactly what I needed to hear. I started off in all of this thinking it would have its challenges but really, what's the worst that could happen?...it would just be a child and I would be its mum. Then very gradually the response of the NHS, friends and family began to dehumanise this baby into a bunch of statistics and unknown horrors to the point where I have been terrified but not really sure what there was to be afraid of. I could never abort and I could never have my baby adopted, so where did that leave me? I now feel a little angry that essentially the thing that has caused me the most anxiety is the fears and prejudices of other people...it's just a baby ffs!

Having read your posts it would appear that I have now come full circle, except now I realise that one of the hardest things to deal with is probably the reactions of other people.

Also Thomcat, I hope you weren't offended by my fears of not being able to love a child with DS. I suppose they reflect my previous difficulties bonding with my dd as a baby. Back then people treated her eczema as a fairly trivial matter despite the fact it was incredibly debilitating. Her continual crying left me pretty uncompassionate to her situation (I just wanted it to stop) and so my thinking this time round was that if DS is sooooo much worse then what are the chances of me bonding?

Once again, thank you, thank you, thank you!!! I feel quite excited about this baby again.

P.S. Eidsvold and Thomcat, your girls really are beautiful and looking at their photos makes me rather ashamed of my fears

OP posts:
gess · 04/09/2007 21:49

Enjoy the rest of your pregnancy

thomcat · 04/09/2007 22:24

Oh Katy, I was never offended, not at all, just very keen to help you see that DS is so not scary and it's more than easy to love and bond with your child should they have DS.

I actually said in an interview I once did that dealing with a child that has extreme eczema must be so much harder than anything I was going through coming to terms with my DD having DS.

A child with eczema is in pain, distressed, they cry a lot, you can't bond, or it's difficult to bond, your feel helpless and so on, it must be so, so difficult.

Having a child with DS is nothing like that, or wasn't for me. She was healthy, slept through from 11pm to about 6am on day 8, very rarely cried, her huge dark eyes followed me round the room, she fed beautifully, came with us everywhere and bonded everyone together, bought out the best in people.

I did grieve for the child I thought I was having but it was also one of the most extreme happy times in my whole life so far.

She is a minx and a half now but she was the easiest baby in the world, an absolute dream.

Other people are only scared for you, the reality, if it happens, will be so, so different. It's the unknown that people are scared of. Those prejudices you are feeling now won't all still be there if your child happens to be born with DS.

I am so, so pleased you feel you have come full circle and feel more positive and calm etc.

I hope you have a stress free and enjoyable pregnancy.

Keep posting

TC xx

Hungrymama · 05/09/2007 20:12

Sorry to but in ... I was just told today that I had a 1:167 chance of having a DS baby and I've been in complete turmoil. Reading this thread (and I've guzzled every word) had been so helpful. Thank you for putting into words what I was unable to express myself. Perhaps we could keep in touch and let each other know how things turn out. I have a scan in two weeks so will know then whether it's more or less likely after that. Feel such a mess of conflicting emotions and need encouraging words like this to keep focused on the good.
xxx

Hungrymama · 05/09/2007 20:23

Not sure any of you will be back on here since the conversation ended yesterday, but if you do drop in once I've gone pls just leave a msg on this thread and i'll pick it up next time I'm on.

Many, many thanks
xxxxx

KatyH · 05/09/2007 21:16

Hi Hungrymama, I'm still here! I still have sooooo many questions so I hope others are still around too . I'm so sorry that you find yourself in this position too, it's a real rollercoaster of emotions isn't it.

Have you made your mind up about what you would like to do? Also, is there any reason why you have to wait 2 weeks for the scan? I had to wait 1 week and that was torture as I think the hardest thing in this is the uncertainty.

I think focusing on the fact that the risk is still really low is helpful. We have had the misfortune of falling below a cut-off point that the NHS has adopted to decide who should be given further testing, it does not mean it's inevitable!

Also, I would love to keep in touch! It's very nice to know I'm not alone. I was feeling a little bit sorry for myself today . I felt that everyone else in the world has uncomplicated preganancies and seem to spend most of their time worrying about what pram to get when all I want is a happy, healthy baby! God, that sounds really pathetic...and I'm sure it is very far from the truth

On another note, if any of the previous posters are around could you answer a small question for me? I spoke to dd's nursery today and told them about the test. I asked them whether they accept children with special needs or not, to which the girl responded that they've only ever had one child before with special needs but that they were fairly mild. She wasn't sure what the position was with regards to children with greater needs. Basically my question is, if you can't get your dc into a mainstream nursery, are there any other options? (Sorry, the control freak in me is coming out now!)

OP posts: