Could this be ASD?

[Amethyst8]

Hi,

Posted on the pre school board and thought I would post here as well. Would be grateful for any information.

DS is 4.6 and started nursery 10 months ago. He started late as he did not seem ready to me and I am not a great believer in sending them off to school too early any way. He has found it difficult to settle there. The staff there tell me that he does not like to join in the group play, won t sit down for stories or snack time and basically prefers to do his own thing. ASD was mentioned but they said it was early days and to see how it went. In his school group photo he is the only one not smiling at the camera. He just looks uncomfortable. He is not allowed to join in assemblies because they say he doesnt do as he is told. However when I read his end of year report it was like reading about a child I had never met before as though they had failed entirely to reach him.

Could someone please tell me what I should be looking for. Took him to my GP and he said he couldnt see any problems and spoke to my MIL about it and she was astounded that it had even been mentioned - she has five kids. He is very bright can count to 100, read the alphabet and understand the sounds of letter, do simple sums. He has been slow to learn to hold a pen and his drawing is not great, but I am working on that with him and he can now write his name and letters from A - T, he knows all his shapes and colours etc. He is a really kindhearted little boy, incredibly gentle with his younger sister and understands moods - he will come and tell me to Be Happy if I am down at all and if his sister crys will tell me to help her. He often makes observations about his surroundings. He did have speech delay. Did not really speak till he was nearly two but you can t shut him up now. He uses the words immediately and actually in context.

He is however extremely interested in cars, planes, trains etc but not to the exclusion of all other interests. Probably plays with his cars, garage etc for about 80% of the time and does have to be encouraged to try new things. He does play imaginitively with them. He likes to watch the same channel every day - Nick jr but will try others if encouraged - watched Narnia and Herbie the other day and loved them. He does seem to struggle a bit with interacting with other kids but does make the effort to talk to them. He has a couple of friends who he seems to get on ok with. Does this sound like he could have ASD. I would be very grateful for any opinions or ideas and also information on the next step.

Ax

He sounds lovely Amethyst.
Maybe he is one of those many boys who is just not ready for school. I think it's sad that he's not allowed into assembly. What does he do when the rest of the chn go in? I think you need to focus on finding out what the staff are doing to help him to be included in the class. Maybe he's just not happy there.

He sounds a lovely chap. Does he have to do something repetitively - for example spin wheels on the cars, spin things/himself or love swinging? I only say that because that is one thing that really singled out my chap.

It does sound a bit like he has a 'something' but what that 'something'is can be very wide reaching from just anxiety and shyness or extra sensory stuff (the noise level might really be getting to him), semantic/pragmatic or other S&L difficulties (he can be talking fluently but may not have the inference and deduction skills to be able to cope in peer and group situations). Dyspraxia will lead to some of the things you have described as will elements of dyslexia. I would possibly ask if the nursery could get the LEA Ed pysch in to observe him and then follow it from there.

Hope this makes some sense.

All the best

ASD is complex because a lot of the symptoms are really exaggerations of the normal- indeed,I have often read ASD (or rather Aspergers specifically) referred to as 'extreme maleness'.

Your gut instincts count for a lot- I knew ds1 was AS long before I had a name for it. However, it sounds like you need reassurance. Things to do: have a look at the triad of impairments as this is quite useful. Assk for a referral to a PAediatrician or whoever diagnoses in your area- my experience is that getting any form of answer takes a while, as does even getting an appointment, therefore its better to get on the list sooner rather than later,iyswim. Then have a good look at the NationaL Autistic Societies website- there is so much information on there, and it is all accesible.

I wouldn't worry too much at this stage. yes some of those behaviurs you deascribe can be rpesent in ASD, but they're none of them exclusive to it. And even if he does have it- beleive me, it's nto the end of the world. Same child, new badge is all (I have onwe with ASD, one with AS and one NT)

I had a look for your other thread. Obviously I have no idea whether or not your ds has ASD but the following thoughts occurred to me when reading your post:

• GPs aren't always particularly good at spotting ASD. I would be wary of any doctor who said, as yours did, that they could tell in less than 2 minutes whether a child was autistic, particularly at the higher end of the spectrum. Even an experienced Developmental Paediatrician would want to see a child for longer than that before reaching such a decision.

• With ASD the development of a child is disordered. There may be things that they can do that you wouldn't expect a child of their age to be able to do, but equally there will be things that they can't do that you would expect them to be able to, eg ds1 could read out random words at 2yrs but didn't start talking until he was around 3yrs and wasn't toilet-trained until he was 4. With the exception of not liking to mix much with other children there's nothing about your ds' development (in your posts) that he doesn't do that you'd expect him to be able to.

• The pre-school staff sound useless. They seem too happy to exclude him from activities like assemblies and sports days rather than look for ways to work with you to include him. They also do not have the authority or the necessary experience to tell you that your ds might be autistic. Have they even consulted a SENCO yet to ask for advice about strategies or IEPs yet? I know you said in your other thread that you're waiting for a school place to come up but my advice would be to take him out of the pre-school if at all possible.

• It's possible that your ds might need some help with social skills but it may also be that he just doesn't relate to the other children at the pre-school, particularly as he is probably at least a couple of years older than many of them. He may also be feeling very bored, particularly if the staff are excluding him from everything and aren't building on the knowledge that he already has.

• When I read my first book about ASD it was one of those 'lightbulb' moments. Parts of it were entirely irrelevant but a lot of it could have been written about my ds1. If nothing seemed familiar to you when you read it then it's quite likely that your ds doesn't have ASD.

I'm not an expert though so would suggest asking for a referral to a developmental paediatrician if you have any suspicions that your ds might be autistic.

Thanks so much for responses. I have done alot of reading on the subject and to be honest I did not have a light bulb moment. One day he seems off and I feel horribly worried and the next he is fine and I honestly believe there is no problem.

Have removed him from the pre school, 2 weeks before the end of last term and felt reassured by this decision on reading his school report. Just felt that they were making no effort whatsoever to reach him and just got tired of the long faces whenever me or DH picked him up. Sure he must have been picking up on that. He won t be going back until we get a Reception Place. The school we are waiting for has a Special Needs Unit so fingers crossed.

Also it does not matter to me one jot if he is ASD. I would not change anything about him for the world. I just want to know so that I can help him. I can t stand to think he is being told off at school (and sometimes at home) for things that he can t help.

His developmental mile stones have been pretty much on the button, walked early and practically toilet trained himself. Just decided at 2 and a half to use the toilet and never looked back. The only thing was his speech and he does find it difficult to relate to his peers. Does not really spin or swing or anything like that but is obsessed with cars and vehicles and occasionally will put inappropriate things in this mother like chewing blu tac and anything that looks rubbery but this does not happen very often. I know though that at 4 he is too old to be doing that.

Coppertop if asking for a referral to a Developmental Paediatrician, do I do that through my GP? Or is it up to the school to arrange? Have read and been told so much conflicting information. Also what exactly is SENCO and how do I go about getting them involved. Is it down to me to push this on? Or will any school he goes to know the correct procedures.

Thanks once again for all your responses. Very concise and easy to take on board unlike much of the stuff I have been told and read up till now.

Ax

A SENCO is the Special Educational Needs Co-ordinator. At pre-school level they usually have an Area SENCO who works with a number of pre-schools. At primary school level the school will usually have its own SENCO. In some schools this will be someone who works as a teacher but also has responsibility for SN in the school. At other schools the SENCO doesn't teach but looks after the SN side of things as a full-time job. When your ds gets a place at school you could ask to speak to the SENCO before ds starts. Once he's already in the classroom it's more usual to go via the class teacher. The school may decide to make a referral to the Educational Psychologist, who will then come into school to see your ds - observing in the classroom and/or giving him some tests. (If you do a search on mumsnet for "Ed Psych" you'll hopefully find descriptions of what happened in different schools when the Educational Psychologist visited).

It might be worth keeping a diary of your ds and the thingfs that he does or doesn't do. Not only will it give you a clearer picture of what is happening but will also give you some useful 'evidence' for if you decide to ask for a referral to a Paed. It sounds as though you still have some concerns so I would say that it would be a good idea to ask for a referral (usually done via the GP or health visitor). The waiting lists can be long so if when the appointment arrives you feel that ds no longer needs it you can just cancel it.

Can I ask - how are his gross motor skills, was he a late sitter, crawler or walker?

I am wondering, since you have obviously looked into the AS thing and found that your DS is not particularly lacking in the social communication side, whether he might have dyspraxia. There is a lot of overlap between the two and AS/dyspraxia often occur together, as in my DS, so it is very confusing.

Have a look at the Dyspraxia Foundation website and see if you get the 'lightbulb' moment there.

If you are worried I would go back to the doctors. You know him best after all. We got a referral to a paediatrican through the HV as DS wasn't at school. She spent time observing him at playgroup and decided that there was something not quite right so she got the GP to do the referral without us ever seeing him.

I have to add that others on this thread have a lot more experience than me at these things but I just wondered, reading your description whether you had considered dyspraxia.