Taking my son out of special needs nursery - anyone have experience of this?

[Jude21]

My son was born 9 weeks early and had a relatively straightforward time in hospital, and out once he came home. At 2 1/2 he was diagnosed with language delay or disorder and we were advised to place him in a very reputable sepcial needs nursery which uses pecs, signing, sensory room access to speech therapists etc etc. He seemed to be very comfortable there and we saw some progress. He is now 4, will have been there over a year and we are thinking about taking him out and putting him in a mainstream montessori nursery (also very reputable), 4 mornings a week. The special needs staff are against this decision as they feel it is too early for him. I am for it for a number of reasons, the main one being his little sister is a year younger and talks non stop to him and I can see this helps him - the children in the special needs nursey do not talk - full stop. Has anyone got similar experiences to me and what do they think????

can you do half and half? eg two days in Sn and two days in montessori? see how he gets on?

Yes we can , but my other worry is that last term he was very clingy and distressed going into the sn nursery. A couple of times I picked him up and he was crying, heaving cries. Very upsetting. He only ever does a couple of hours, three times a week so I don't think it was being away from me, particularly as he had been OK to start with. Over the summer hols I watched him play with other children his age who are talking etc etc and he was fine playing with them, and trying hard to join in. I'm worried that he may go backwards particularly if he is not happy. Staff have no idea what is causing this reaction.

Well try the half and half and if he loves the Montessori and makes progress, you have your answer. Does he talk or sign mostly?

Yes I suppose that makes sense! Also I can do a trial run for a couple of weeks and if he is still distressed take him out until half term. He doesn't sign at all, but he uses pecs quite often - however over the summer he has been trying to talk and although hard to understand, he is using two or three words in a row. Yesterday his sister said, "I is wet" and I corrected her and said "I am wet" and he then repeated "I wet am!" very clearly. (He may be a Shapkespearian poet in the making!). I was over the moon.

Ah, bless! That sounds great.
Some Montessori nurseries are good with SN, some less so, but it's worth trying IMO. I think if they work for your child they can be brilliant.

Jude, I have a son with speech delay/disorder (and HFA). He is at a Montessori and they have been absolutely great with him. His speech has really come on. They do have some signing and PECS there as well, and told me they found it was good for the children with English as a second language as well as for my son.

Thank you for your input here - really appreciate it. What is IMO? My daughter is at the Montessori and I really really love what they do there - go very much at her rate and take into account all her circumstances as well. (her older brother and a new baby).

It seems like you've nearly made your mind up BUT.

Do you any Inclusive Learning Campus or Childrens Centres or the like near you. These are state run but have all the support that a special needs nursery has. Difference is they are mainstream and so have children from all backgrounds. When little one is old enough she could go too.

My daughter had her best year's education at one of these (inclusive nursery centre it was named at the time) because all the staff are trained, their systems are set up and there were high expectations of her (in that they treated her no differently to a mainstream child). Private nurseries (whether montessori or not) are often not very good at the specialist support.

The state education system now uses many montessori methods and is more child centred (or should be). The foundation stage is now all about learning through play, enabling all children to find the best way to learn.

I would also think carefully about moving your child too many times. You may have to do it again as he gets older and his needs change.

Hi Jude,

I took my DS (autistic) out of sn nursery after just 2 months, to start an ABA programme with part-time attendance at a ms nursery. I felt rather uneasy about it at the time, but I'm now absolutely sure it was the right decision.
My DS is also 4 now, and still severely delayed in his expressive language, BUT coming on in leaps and bounds.

For me, the lack of normally-developing role models at the sn nursery was a major drawback, as were the low expectations of the staff, and the lack of communication with parents. However, DS has really only been able to develop his social skills at nursery since we started sending our own ABA tutors to nursery with him. Without them, he would just be treading water tbh.

Does your ds have a statement? If not, have you applied for one? Would you be able to recruit someone (e.g. a speech and language therapy or psychology student) to go into nursery with him? I think mainstream integration is great, but not without support.

H Jude
My ds2 was born at 28wks & also has language delay. We considered a sn nursery (attached to the sn school) but because of the distance, we decided to send him to the small village playgroup. For him it was the right decision, it was small enough for the staff to spend some time each day working on the SALT advice.
Have the sn nursery said why they feel it is too early for him?
Will the staff at the ms nursery be PECS/sign trained?

Also we looked at a montessori nursery but it was all based around the child choosing their activity, getting it out & leading the play/learning.
Our ds finds making choices very difficult & needed more structure & planned activities, the local nursery seemed to offer more structure.
Some montessori nurseries can have a very set idea about how a child should learn, certainly my ds's sn would not fit with this model.

My Ds is just 3, he has always done some SN some Mainstream (with 1 to 1) Nursery.

Am cutting him to 2 sessions SN, 3 ms from sept.

He just enjoys ms so much more, the children want to talk and play with him - something he finds frustrating at the SN.

Also (as someone has said) the targets/low expectations of the staff, lack of communication and just poor use of Makaton etc () has turned me off the place.

He has only ever cried when left at ms 3 times, sobbed hysterically for months at SN!

Good luck.

Your ideas and experiences have made me seriously reconsider. However Homsa and Alycat seem to have had the same worries as I do and that it is around very low expectations - which I totally appreciated initially. Also special needs is such a huge umbrella for all sorts of things. My son's comprehension is really good now - I can tell him to do a couple of things in one sentence and he does it. The staff do not see what he is capable of at home and I'm not sure they believe me (?) but their experience of him is about 5 months behind what we are seeing. So obviously they do not think he is ready for ms. i am going to look into children centres anyway although I think in this area the montessori nursery is prob the best. They do use Makaton and pecs and even better go at the child's rate. He will also be with his sister at playtime and outside and they are like twins so will be delighted to be with each other. We are waiting to be statemented but I have been told not to hold my breath...
very grateful for all inut here though - never expected it and am new to mumsnet.

Yes, I would definitely say that school expectations should be higher than at home. They should be surprising you with all the wonderful things he has done at school, not the other way round.

Mrs Marvel = that is just the info I am looking for here actually. I have no idea whether or not he should be behind or ahead at home...and the fact that you think I should be surprised at what he is doing...well that is just not happening. I am always amazed at how far behind he seems - when they tell me what he has done. They were very against me potty training him althopugh he was 99% dry at home. He did have accidents there but I asked them to bear with me - I think they thought I was being a very pushy mother. This is becoming a lot clearer to me as to what I should be expecting. Thanks,

Jude. Our ds1 has cp and cannot talk, he will do a few signs and uses a communication aid to talk with, (5.5 now), started off full-time in sn nursery then did a split placement (with a one-to-one helper through his statement) at ms for 2 days and 3 at sn. This worked really well but he could not have done it without his 1:1 helper. From September he will be in year 1 at ms full time (very worrying to say the least!). I found that in ms school, he is much more pushed (in a good way) to try to talk and communicate with his friends, the sort of 'push' he just wasn't getting at sn. I think it is a great help to be surrounded by 'chatter' and has been very encouraging for ds1, it has almost given him more 'will' to want to talk. He does have a 1:1 for his physical disabilities etc., but she is very good at shadowing him and encouraging him forward to interact.

Re the expectation differences,

At a recent meeting in the SN nursery with mainstream nursery teacher, HV, salt, head of nursery, keyworker, Portage worker, Area SENCO, community Paed etc

It was very apparent he is able to achieve more at home for me, same level for Portage worker (at home with me there), slightly less at MS nursery (where he has a much loved 121 who used to be our Au Pair)and much less at SN - I was told this was a fairly usual state of affairs.

I am open mouthed about their lack of ambition on his IEP. Also I do not think, despite the hype, that mine is a good SN nursery. But they are rarely pulled up on it as for most parents this is their only break. Some 2.5-3 yr olds are there all day which (imho) is too long. During our elongated settling in period I saw some appaling practise and saw the head of nursery many times about this.

I would like to take him out and/or move him to diff sn school but he has just settled in 2 whole terms! and I am moving him to a better/smaller mainstream nursery in Sept and think a double move would be too much.