MMR Pre School Boster ?? What would you do ??

[twocutedarlings]

Hi,

My Daughter is about to start school next month,She is currently undergoing an assessment for Aspergers. Last week we recieved the reminder for her MMR boster, I was all set for her not to have this boster until after the assessment is done, not because i think the MMR causes Autium but because i have read on the net that alot of parents of children with ASD feel that there kids have become more Autistic by the MMR boster.

Since then i have read on my local forum that the has been an outbreak of measels in our area, so now im questioning my orginal decision for her not to have it yet !! im stumped now i dont know what to do? obviously i dont want her to get measels but im also worried about what ive read about the effects of the MMR boster on ASD children.

Is there anyone here that had also faced my dilema ?? or what would you do if this was your child??

Chelseamorning - I personally think that 14mth is still a bit young tbh, there are others here that can help you further, but fwiw i dont think that any child should be given the MMR under the age of 2.

chelsea- about 8% to 10% of cases of autism are believed to have been MMR triggered. They may have had the potential to be triggered by other things as well. One risk factor might be a family history of gut problems. Another is a family history of autoimmunity. If you have either of those risk factors I would treat MMR with caution (I don't necessarily mean not have it when I say that, I just mean be cautious and read more before you decide when/how/if to give it).

Donna Williams (I keep mentioning her!) has written quite sensibly about it here

Thanks twocutedarlings, DS's MMR at 14 months is one of the scheduled vaccinations, rather than something I've actively pursued. I'm just worried to death about it. Keep having dreams where something goes horribly wrong. It's scheduled for 8 Jan. It was originally scheduled early Dec but the HV suggested I leave it in case DS reacted to it over Christmas.

Thanks also yurt1. Blimey, there are gut problems in the family (Crohn's, coeliacs, IBS) as well as immunity problems (eczema and psoriasis). I'll take at look at the link you mentioned.

ah - well according to someone on here her immunologist has told her to give singles because of chrohns. Have a search and you may find it in the archives (she's made several posts about this).

Actually Wakefield's original work was on measles virus and chrohns rather than autism- he found that after an 'atypical' measles exposure (such as during an epidemic) chrohns is considerably more likely to develop.

I'd recommend Richard Halvorsen's book The Truth about Vaccinations (he's an NHS GP) - he goes into MMR and the singles in detail.

No one will make this decision for you, only you, but at least you are looking into both sides of the "argument" as opposed to accepting what a doctor or another parent tells you.

All of my family has had measles at one time or another, and as far as danger of measles go, if a child is taken care of, is in generally good health, measles comes and goes.

try to filter out the hype from the truth.

I have now read Halvorsen's book - thanks so much for recommending it. It was a really good read and has helped me to get the issues straight. No more horrible horrible bad dreams about this.

I've decided to cancel my DS's MMR appointment. The fact that there is MS, Crohn's, coeliacs, psoriasis, hay fever etc in my family has made me cautious. Will try to find a clinic who will check DS's antibodies to see if he has any natural immunity to either M, M or R. (Any recommendations???) Will then probably only arrange for a single vaccination of measles if ne needs it.

I had mumps three times - yes, really - so I'm wondering whether my antibodies are unable to 'remember' this virus. Perhaps my DS is the same with this or other viruses. If he is then vaccinating him with MMR just isn't worth the risk with the family history.

It's been so helpful reading threads and messages from such a well informed bunch of people. Thanks for all the posts!

xx

Don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, but there was a major study just done in the US, that found that autism may be genetic. I also saw a scientist interviewed about it on American television, and she said that the reason it seems like kids get the MMR and then develop symptoms is simply down to timing--the onset age is 18 mos or whatever, and so is the MMR, and that there has never been any concrete scientific link between the two. The anecdotal evidence has perpetuated this incorrect theory, because it does seem like kids get the vaccine and then bam, develop symptoms.

The other thing to consider is that if people refrain from immunizing their children, measles etc. will spread (it already is) and children who have weakened immune systems or who cannot be vaccinated for other reasons are left vulnerable. And while many people recover from these illnesses, some do not, and rubella can have devastating effects to pregnant women.

Ava- the timing thing is a total red herring imo. It's about regression. It also suggests that mothers are stupid and didn't notice. It might be hard to notice at the time but looking back you can see., And anyway a regression accompanied by seizures and physical bowel problems (as often happens in the MMR group) is entirely different.

I'm sure that ds1 had a genetic vulnerability to autism- but that genetic vulnerability was triggered by an environmental agent. There aren' that many things that are 100% genetic. Genes and environment interplay.

Some autism- especially AS/HFA may well be 100% genetic. ASD associated with something like frag X might be 100% genetic, but not all autism has the same cause. There are many routes to autism- MMR is probably only a small one (8% ish of cases apparently). UNtil people stop seeing autism as one big homegenous mass it won't get far.

G;ad the Halvorsen book was helpful.

Ava
sorry but the timing thing is nonsense.
My son was developing normally including speech etc. He had recently had a GP health and development check which confirmed all was fine. Had his MMR at 18 months and lost all skills within a very short period of time. Perfectly normally to severely autistic in less than three months.
It was not a timing co-incidence. Bam -total nonsense.

Having thought about this long and hard, I've come to believe that both DS1 and DS2 have a genetic susceptibility to autism. There are auto-immune and bowel problems on both sides of the family and severe dyslexia in a number of nephews and cousins on Dh's side as well. The reason, imo, that DS2 is so much more seriously affected is that he had mega doses of antibiotics at 10 days old (to save his life) and that this made his system more vulnerable to the vaccinations (and steroids) which followed.

I've said this before on MN, but I was a complete sceptic about the MMR trigger theory. DS2 had his jab late (I kept putting it off because of repeated chest infections). We didn't notice anything was wrong until he was about two - his regression was so gradual - in fact it was more like plateauing than a regression. When he was being dxed a year later the paed asked me to look through old videos and see if I could pinpoint the moment when he first started changing. It was at 16 months - with hindsight an obvious 'turning inwards' and loss of alertness and sparkle.It wasn't until I had to fill in a medical form some time later and rang the surgery to check the date he'd had his MMR that I made the link - he'd had his MMR at 16 months.

PipinJo
there were a number of claimants in the courts here in the UK a couple of years ago.
the case was progressing well until the people responsible for funding legal actions made by those unable to afford it ( most ofthese families having profoundly disabled children were understandably broke) decided to withdraw the legal aid.
the case subsequently could not be persued.
the pharmaceutical companies then wrote to each individual claimant and told them that if they did not formally withdraw then the companies would try and make them personally responsible for all the costs.
As each of the pharamaceuticals had hired humdreds of laywers this was a massive and vicious threat to make against often poor families.
what a bunch of bullying twats. worked of course and the case floundered.
This govt who claims to want to prove that the MMR is safe could have secuered that ( if IF it is actually true ) by funding the case. Hmmm wonder why they so spectacularly chickened out and spent the few million on PR instead? I wonder?

The antibiotics thing worries me a bit. ds2 had a course of IV ABs at 3 weeks old due to a suspected neonatal infection - it can't have been a huge dose as he wasn't all that ill, but it does concern me. I and other members of my family have slight auto-immune issues (mine are occasional bouts of psoriasis and IBS). We had decided before ds2 was born that he will have M, M and R as singles (quite possibly only measles initially, and M and R later in childhood), but what about the baby jabs? He's had two of them already. If there is a history of receiving ABs, can the baby jabs present a problem too?

PipinJo Pagwatch has explained the disgusting cover-up- situation.

It is worth reading the CryShame website if you haven't come across it yet. Of course check out JABS too and you can self-reported a suspected adverse reaction here

FWIW DS had the single vaccines. He did have a reaction to the rubella vaccine (nasty rash and unwell for a couple of days) but I don't think his HFA is related to that (so glad we had the single vaccines though, or I would have been wondering). Looking back on it now, DH and I are one of those couples who probably never could have an NT child (and would be unable to relate to one if we did).

My 4 year old's booster appointment came through last June when he has one appointment after another, including a blood draw as part of his evaluation for autism. He was stressed enough by going to all these places to see all these strange people so we delayed a couple of months.

Just to balance the anecdotes about the MMR booster making autism worse, he had a major language breakthrough in the months following his booster!

PipinJo
there is a cheme which pays out compensation for vaccine damage - but that is rather the point - no one will legally accept thatthese cases ARE vaccine damage, so that scheme will not pay out for most MMR children.

AS far as I am aware there are no MMR cases in the courts at present, although others may have info on that. Apart from anything else I think it would be very hard to find a lawyer/solicitor who would take such a case unless you can personally afford the hundreds of thousands of pounds it would cost to go through the court system.
Given that the judge in the main MMR cases was extremely scathing about the appalling tactics of the pharamaceutical companies lawyers I think it would be a fair bet that any independent/private legal action would be many years in court and almost impossible to pay for.
Once legal aid was withdrawn that was pretty much it IMHO.
It is not right, it is unfair to the point of immorality but i don't believe that currently much can be done about it although i suspect that the likes of Roasemary Kessick and Dr Wakefield and Cryshame etc are trying.

BUMP for monkeypie

Thanks twocutedarlings, much appreciated. Just read this thread very interesting and i will check out all the links too!