How to cope with before and after school meltdowns

[Worriedmum1511]

Dd is 4 and in reception. Has been under peads with an "unsure" of ASD or not from the age of 2.

In school she is coping well. You wouldn't know anything is amiss from her obs in school apparantly.

About 3 weeks into foundation term she showed signs she was struggling school weren't concerned as she's fine there and no issues. She was having meltdowns before and after school.

Then week before half term she snapped some more and the meltdowns at home got worse, lasted longer and started quicker after school. The HT saw her throwing strops whilst walking out of school and referred to their pastoral for support with parenting. On the Wednesday she majorly kicked off before school and we got to school 90 minutes late. Fairly sure by this point school have decided I'm the world's crappest parent.

Half term we had no issues apart from one day. She was calm and settled and frankly a joy again.

After half term within 2 days she went south again. By the Friday we got into school late and she had a huge meltdown upon arriving which the SENCO and pastoral witnessed and have said about chasing up her peads etc.

Come Monday the meltdowns in the morning are lasting 1.5-2 hours. We are doing later starts and she goes in crying everyday but is settling very quickly. Still no issues whilst actually in school. She's a very happy very bright and very eager in school. I'm picking her up and the meltdowns are starting even before we have left the playground.

My question is how the hell do I keep doing this? I'm dragging her into school crying every morning and dragging her out crying every afternoon. She begs me in the morning not to go and that her tummy hurts. I have a 60 second recording of this morning's 2 hour meltdown where she is utterly inconsolable begging me because letters are too hard now. She is very switched on and always painfully aware of what everyone else can do in comparison to her.

Apart from riding things out I don't really know how to cope with the meltdowns. I'm working with the pastoral who are on about TAC meetings but I'm fairly sure this is because it's all been decided it's down to parenting.

Im at a complete loss and a very stressed mum.

If you have an ASC transitions are hard. School will not be thinking it is all down to parenting. They should work with you to make the transition into school every morning easier. Children who are anxious will be worrying they might get told off, (this can often be because other children in the class have been told off for misbehaving and they think they might be next if they put a foot wrong) She might be anxious because something in the school day is not predictable, or breaktime or lunch might present issues that only she is aware of (so masking as happy and secure but actually doesn't like the food, the queue, the people she plays with, the noise...her table...anything really)

I don't think it is about riding it out. It is about listening to her fears and anxieties and talking her through the day in advance. If the teacher can greet her in the morning 1:1 or she could go in through the Office instead of the cloakroom for a bit that might all ease the transition issue (leaving safe lovely mum for stimulating demanding world of school) It is not that she hates school, but that the difference between the two worlds is so intense for her - it is the panic people might get when they are preparing to go on holiday or getting ready for a party.

After school you are getting the backlash from her possibly "masking" all day. So decompression is the key. When you greet her, immediately you need to give her some transition tool...could be a snack, a chance to talk through her day, complete downtime. She cannot behave at this point, so you need to distract her from her emotions or channel them. My other experience was that my child would often hang on to go to the toilet at this point, was desperate and bursting and this also contributed to meltdowns. Children with ASC can sometimes hold on a very long time without admitting to themselves they need the toilet but feeling increasingly angry and tense. The minute my kids came out of school (I had twins) I used to make them go back in to the loo, otherwise I couldn't have got them home without mega screaming. I had one with ASD (not diagnosed at that point) and the other was in a state after behaving well all day...

It is not so black and white as "all about parenting" but parenting can help enormously. It certainly won't be because they are blaming you for your child's meltdowns, more that they might give you ideas about how to make getting in and out of school easier, which also includes THEIR interventions IN SCHOOL, regardless of how she is "fine" there. My sons primary had several children who found going to school stressful (one of my friend used to sit with her child in the car, still dressed in his pjs, waiting for the SENCO to come out and coax him in) - one of their strategies as a school was to have a nurture room...so the day started with the children making toast and hot chocolate in a small group, or playtime might be a group playing lego together. Just ways to make the school seem less threatening and more personal, until they felt more at ease and able to cope with the day to day transitions.

The friend with a son in pjs went on to experience her child's complete school refusal aged 14. He has no diagnosis except anxiety, but in the years where she employed the forcing him into school method I think she would look back now and say it was a complete waste of time. What worked at primary was when he loved school so much that he wanted to be there - his friendships with others, his relationships with the teachers, the activities he did there that he enjoyed (singing, sports, history) and so on. Bigging those up, rather than playing the "You have to go to school whether you like it or not", which was her frequent mantra when she felt overwhelmed, criticised by school for not getting him in, and as if a "good" parent would be more authoritative. But I don't think the school themselves felt this, they just wanted to help.

Thank you. It's so difficult.

She is so so anxious at the moment and in a vicious cycle of anxiety is keeping her up later so then she is megatired which means she is coping even less well with the things that make her anxious so then she is sleeping worse and worse. She isn't sleeping until between 10pm-12.15am most days.

I don't think she has any interventions actually in school apart from SALT.

I just worry they are seeing it as parenting because her meltdowns always start as "naughtiness" ie refusing to walk, running off and whining/crying over something minor before it steps up and it's like she implodes.

Awful as this sounds too it's getting so so embarassing. I'm trying to ignore it but when she's the only kid coming out like this and she's so loud everyone is watching us.

NB. My child went half days for two terms in Reception. He used to skip into school knowing he was going to be out at lunchtime. Now this is frowned on by Mumsnet as an illegal exclusion but it worked for us. He then went full time by the summer, and wasn't really finding school very stressful until he was 8 (later diagnosed with ASD). I think those half days made such a difference to him. Just a thought.

That is very little sleep I would pushing for half days if you can. It sounds as if your time together is very productive - she is learning a lot at home, and school is making her incredibly anxious. So she needs less school and more sleep for the time being. When I was that age we only did half days!

You need someone to look at her in school who is an EXPERT at seeing the little signs of anxiety that seep through the mask. Things like walking on tiptoe, excessive sniffing, picking at their hands, zoning out.

I wish you well. My DD is still struggling even in a great school that couldn't do anymore for her. She's not actually in at the moment and ae cant even mention it without a meltdown.

but a child so sleep deprived isnt really going to behave in a typical way. I just think there is a simpler solution than lots of professionals creating this massive TAC. Cut down the thing that is making her anxious! And reintroduce it gradually when her coping strategies have increased.
And why is a Foundation stage concentrating on Letters to the extent that she is so worried by it? I thought the EYFS was about play and exploration and Reception is not the first year in school, but the last EYFS year.

If she is finding it hard holding a pencil, could they think about that? Other mark making, sandpaper letters, gross motor skills to strengthen arm and wrist(climbing, clay, kneading dough, salt dough) I eternally regret the time my son spent NOT learning how to write when his fingers and wrists just couldn't manage the actions, if I had left it a year perhaps he would have got off to a better start. (Scribed now for all exams)

It is not about telling a child to be less anxious, it is for the school to find ways to make her less anxious by giving her things she can do not the things she cannot.

I just looked up "Developing Handwriting in the EYFS". Very interesting, and a lot of emphasis on gross motor skills and then fine motor skills, without necessarily doing formal handwriting at all. So weaving painting chopping, pretending to be letters through dance and movement, using sand trays to trace letters. It says that formal handwriting is not appropriate unless children are ready to do it. There is also a section on children with SEN and supervising handwriting activities.
I know it is just a small part of the day at school, and she will be doing lots of other things, but you mentioned that she felt left behind and that letters were hard.

She is likely not ready for school. Id Keep her home or at nursery for longer

It will be phonics that's upsetting her. She has a speech sound issue caused by poor phonological awareness. She is so aware of what's going on around her it's almost certain she will recognise that other kids can do it more easily than she can.

She's always been a bit funny, she didn't toilet train until 3yr10m when she knew for certain she could do it. She wouldn't count to 10 until she was completely certain because she got upset if she got it wrong etc. I suspect what is happening is that she's forcing herself to try to please her teachers, knows she isn't getting it right and that's causing the problem.

Where in s very similar position with ASD DD who started Reception in September (we're on the Auties Transition thread which is a very supportive place) and is finding things increasingly difficult.

We are having intense meltdowns before and after school since half term. She's having anxiety related toilet trips so CE September (frequently weeing basically), tiptoeing, nail picking and suffering with restlessness too. School very slow to offer support and thinks she's fine when in actual fact she is masking. DD is such a perfectionist she us probably finding the learning hard if she doesn't get it right straight away.

I found reading nettleskeins advice this morning helpful so thanks for that.

Hope you can find some support OP, it us not given to 'bad' parenting. I wondered if it's harder to get support for girls with ASD as they mask? I've seen lots of other children at DD's school with 1:1 support but they are boys. We have no support at all for DD. DD is well behaved at school (because she's internalising and holding it all in), so she isn't disturbing the class or the teacher and as s result she's probably just left to it when she is in fact desperate need of support.

Apologies for many typos

I think being perfectionist/stressed about things going wrong is very common in autistic kids. We've read lots of stories etc. with my DD about how important it is to make mistakes, everyone makes mistakes, etc. I've no idea if it's actually made a difference but she does seem a little bit less stressed about that now.

I agree it will be because of her struggling with school. It's very tough and a big transition at the start. If she's struggling with the transition in particular things like a transitional object can help, or we used a "hug button" which is good as they can't lose it! DD had the same TA meet her at the school gate and take her in while I left every day to start with (at least for the first term, and even after that we'd still have to make sure we spotted the TA in the playground before I could go so DD was confident she was there).

Things that give her some time to decompress during the school day (e.g. ear defenders, taking the fuse out of the handdryer in the bathroom and using towels instead, letting her do an activity somewhere quieter or in a smaller group at breaktimes/lunchtimes, letting her come in at a quieter time or through a quieter route, etc.)

I would set up a meeting with the SENCO and see if you can brainstorm together some ways to make it easier. It's not a criticism of your parenting or the school's teaching - it's just recognising that school is clearly the trigger for the distress (even if it isn't where the distress is happening) and that you need to work together to find strategies for that.

Something DD's school just did for the whole Year 1 class (but with DD in mind) is a visual list of the jobs they need to do at the start and end of the day (getting out their books, putting their lunch away, etc. and then picking everything up at the end of the day). Most schools have visual timetables in Reception anyway, but if yours don't they should, and you may also be able to do some of that at home too?

Visual prompts at home and a clear routine for the morning before school, with plenty of time for things she likes, could also help in theory - though it's going to be hard to build in that time when she's not sleeping, so maybe that's one to leave for later!

Hello OP, what a stressful and difficult situation for you both.

It really sounds like you need this diagnosis finalised, so it's good the school have chased for the referral.

Can I suggest you email the Senco, Pastoral person and the class teacher (one email, copy them all in) and say you're urgently requesting a meeting to discuss her support needs. Explain she's awaiting a diagnosis of ASC and say that, regardless of formal diagnosis or not, you'd like school to employ autism support strategies with her to see if there's an improvement. (There will be, I promise you!!)

Loads of great advice from nettleskeins above, pick through it and list out any points you think are particularly relevant for your DD and list these out at the meeting, asking/suggesting a specific adaptation they could try for (at least) a fortnight.

If worrying about what the school thinks of your parenting is bothering you (I really understand this) then I'd suggest facing it head on. Eg at end of meeting you could say 'Thank you for supporting DD, I know this is a very common experience for mums of children on the spectrum, but it can feel quite unnerving when your child manages to cope in school but then can't cope any longer at home. I know lots of parents feel their parenting skills are under judgement, and I'm really grateful that's not the case here and you're putting support in place for DD"

I echo the prev advice to reduce her school day as an interim measure so she can cope better, then gradually extend

The perfectionism and self criticism can be so huge for our kids, and such a block. We recently bought the Carol Gray book of social stories after hearing about it on MN. It's amazing. There's a series of stories about how making mistakes is normal. My DS was fascinated by it and it's really helped give us a shared vocab for talking about mistakes being normal

Thank you, I have been reading and processing.

We are doing slightly later starts and earlier finishes to miss the crowds.

I just need a date for the meeting to work towards as everything feels like it is taking forever.

She's been a hot mess tonight over spotty mufti day tomorrow AND it's her birthday tomorrow where she isn't getting that her party eont be on the same day. It's all just so difficult

This comment of Nettleskeins resonates with me and I hope this is the case for my ds.

leaving safe lovely mum for stimulating demanding world of school) It is not that she hates school, but that the difference between the two worlds is so intense for her - it is the panic people might get when they are preparing to go on holiday or getting ready for a party

He refuses to go into school on and off and refused yesterday, having his own version of a meltdown (lengthy tantrum about wanting to use the ipad). These meltdowns are their versions of panic attacks, though I admit I didn’t realise this in the moment, only in hindsight. Like Hawkmoth, this is despite lots of accommodations in school.

It does not sound at all to me that the school believe it’s your parenting. The fact they’ve referred to ‘help with parenting’ is purely because it’s out of school, chasing the paed appointment is a good sign. TAC is about getting everyone on the same page.

Hi all,

Can I ask a further question? At what stage do you draw the line and say no school that day? School have always said to get her in regardless and they will deescalate her there but surely there is a point I say no?

We had an horrific morning of meltdowns and I just couldn't do it to her

It’s a very personal thing. I don’t physically force my son into school now. I did a few times in the early days but it was awful and it gets to a point when you can’t physically force them anyway. I continue to try and encourage him to go in, talking about people and things/activities that he likes. Even if he ends up going in willingly for part of the day that is acceptable to me. I make sure he does some work at home. Then I would try and work with the school on trying to identify and resolve the issue.

That said, ds has a diagnosis and an EHCP so I know things are easier for us. He is pretty much the same at school and at home so I don’t have any perception issues to overcome and our school is very supportive. I’m also not working which helps massively. The refusal also comes and goes and though he is verbal he’s not always able to articulate why yet.

I really feel for you OP, it’s an awful way to start the day, for her and you, and you worry so much about the long term implications.

I agree that it is a very personal thing. I have decided that I won't be forcing my DD in from now on. What helped me come to this decision was a combination of gut instinct, discussions on MN with people in similar situations, speaking to a senior colleague (I work for the LA ironically) and reading on a website called notfineinschool (I think some of this advice on this site is aimed at older children though).

It probably depends on the cause for the upset though and how supportive the school is in making the transition easier.

I think I need to establish boundaries in my own mind. I don't mind sending her mid meltdown when I know what's causing her anxiety is going to be alleviated once she gets there but I just couldn't force her to go to something that was going to worsen it considerably due to the mufti.

We've also just had a party where some mum's said (very very nicely) that she is always touching and kissing their kids. They were lovely about it but it's another thing to tackle 😭

They aren't allowed to tell you not to bring her in when she is upset.They have to say Get her In and we will desescalate.
But it may not work.
Please follow your instincts as a parent and do not allow the school to dictate to you how your daughter should be feeling or how she should be coping. It is your family life and you being tortured. At the best you are re-conditioning her to cope with something she finds very upsetting (for what?? - school policy) at worst you are breaking her trust in you.
I would be looking at a much shorter day starting at a normal time and ending before lunch, not just late starts and early end (10 to 2 (if that is what is being tried) is still a long time and it is just going to increase her feeling of alienation from the majority of the class)

School refusal is something that doesn't go away just because the school says you need to get her in. For some children, it gives the parent more confidence to get their child in, for some children it is the right authoritative approach that their parent works with the school in this way. But I think your gut feeling is that she is happy at home and that school is creating an enormous amount of anxiety that wasn't there before, they are helpfully desescalating an anxiety that was created by school; can they see the irony of that?

Hi OP, just a thought re the mufti - my DS also found non uniform day got him all shaken up.

I was reading on another thread about strategically booking appointments for days when we know they're exhausted or couldn't cope with something.

If longer term your DD hopefully settles but you know non-uniform day is tricky, you could decide to book some kind of "appointment " that day, eg water therapy (swimming), nature therapy (walk in the woods)