Can I start a poo thread without everyone groaning?

[sphil]

Sorry sorry - I know it's been done to death and I have read through the archive posts, I really have, but just need to vent.

We've had the odd poo incident with DS2, but this last week it's as if he's studying for a Masters degree in smearing. It seems as if every time my back is turned he's got his hand down his nappy and is fishing out yet more poo which he then proceeds to wipe on every surface possible. Our new sofa had been installed for precisely two hours before it acquired skid marks; he's adorned my mum's new cushions, a large and very hairy teddy bear, the windows, the carpet and today the INSIDE of the video slot.

We've just moved house - could it be a reaction, do you think? He seems entirely unaffected in every other way.

We've also really stepped up his home programme in the last three weeks - he's doing 5 hours a day, 4 days a week with three different tutors. He loves them and is making excellent progress. But he only ever does the smearing when they've gone home and he's left on his own in a room (which I have to do sometimes...)or when he's been put to bed - could it be attention seeking? Or sensory? Or a sign he needs to be potty trained which I've been putting off in a cowardly fashion for ages?

I'm aware I'm looking for reasons when there might not be any. But it depresses the hell out of me. I seem to spend my life sniffing various surfaces. HELP!

Have no advice for you but just wanted you to know I have also had a day of poo. Well, that is BEGGING my ds1 (5.5 with cp) to do a pooh on the loo. I could tell one was 'on the way' as you do so I thought I would go for it. I said to myself I would use these holidays to attempt to loo train him but have suddenly realised that there is only a short time left so this afternoon I whipped off his nappy and started the onslaught of going to the loo with him.......approximately 50 times or more. He has a bit of a toilet phobia anyway and I have tried every trick that is possibly going. Anyway, just as I was about to pick up hubby from work at about 5.30. and he sat on the loo and trumped!!! Which let out a very little prezzie aswell!!! The look of surprise on his little face and the smile that broke was like a winning lottery ticket to me. Anyway, we did not get a full poo, but its a start.

I fear there are many more hours of begging on my hands and pretending to cry, (amongst other things which make him laugh his head off) to come.

Oh for a world without poo in it.....

Yep, I'm trying the sitting on the loo as well. To get him to stay there I have to sing the last line of 'I'm a Little Tractor' over nad over again. So there I am, kneeling in front of the loo, both taps on, wailing
' CHUGGING up and down each row...CHUGGING up and down each row...CHUGGING...' while DS2 gives his willy an occasional flick and giggles.

Was I put on earth for this, I ask myself?

Oh sphil. I live this too. Last horrific incident was when DS (7) did it in a play centre when with my FRIENDS, not me! They haven't recovered yet and will never return to the play centre.

I expect you read this is said archives, sorry.

My DS mainly does it in the early morning. He now ALWAYS sleeps in made to measure all-in-ones and DD's tights. He looks horrific but needs must!

I know it's too hot really (it's too hot for DS to wear tights to bed!) but have you thought about putting him in swimming (cycling type) shorts under his clothes? How old is he? "High rise" clothes are the way to go really (dungarees) but they are virtually impossible to get hold of for children over 6 or 7.. I really struggle now.

How old is DS?

It IS soul destroying, you're quite right. I used to cry my eyes out and thought we were the only people in the world with a smearing, poo eating child! Then I posted on here (originally under another name as was so ashamed) and got loads of support.

You are not alone. Shit happens.. to many of us!!

Heh, 'flicking' his willie is good. Pulling and stretching it in all directions until it nearly drops off is very worrying, but obviously not painful by the hysteria on his little face . Its funny because when I was on my knees in the downstairs loo begging ds1 to poo, wondering at the time what the hell I was kneeling in with dd and ds2 crawling up my back and my collapsing in a heap on poor ds1 because of it, I was kind of laughing like someone possessed and wishing for release from my own little loonie assylum, but I was thinking to myself and I will remember this moment when i'm old and grey. (pretty bloody soon if I have many more afternoons like this!).

Ah yes poo smearing, I have a couple of stories I could tell but I don't think I will go there.

Why not? It's nothing to be ashamed of, I know that now. Just hard to live with..

(Unless it's YOU that does the poo smearing.. ... scat I think that's called... )

I spent 80 quid on 4 made to measure 'Houdini'(hah!) sleep suits for DS2 at the start of the summer. The 'made to measure' bit didn't allow for the fact that he's just done the 4 year old growth thing where they go from being short and chubby to long and thin - so he can now get his hand up the leg...even the full length ones.

Lol at the tights - I might just try it, though I think he wouldn't like the feel of them - ditto cycling shorts.
Dungarees are a possibility...
What I really need are those vests that babies wear that I could put on under his nightclothes. If he had two layers to get through I might have more chance of getting to him in time.

Vest no good Sphil. They just stick their fingers up the legs. You need something with legs.

Yes we could only afford 2 Houdini suits, they are so expensive aren't they? Did you buy them through Fleglings? When I was on the phone to the lady who makes them re measurements etc I mumbled about the cost and got a sharp response about "natural fibres, all from the UK and no exploitive labour involved.." (No she's certainly not being exploited at that price!)

I alternate them nightly. Natrual fibres or not, one of them has a hole in it already! And I paid £3 more per suit because I wanted coloured fabric... knew white would get horribly stained. So together they cost neary £50 which I transferred from DS's account.. .. just don't have that kind of money!

It's no surprise to hear that it costs 4 x (I think?) as much to raise a disabled child as a non disabled one!

Yes, got them from Fledglings. She did warn me about measuring properly, but how was I to know he'd go from chubby legs to stick legs in three months? I was thinking of putting the vest UNDER the Houdini suit. Thank God for a cold summer...

Have you seen the Donann site for fleecy all in ones for the winter? DS wears them backwards so he can't undo the zips..

www.dancemania.biz/dancewear/erol.html#189X6634

How about this? i know it would be a bit sweaty, but better than being really pooey mabe?

The all in one swim wear is good for bed. Matalan do them for about £6.

Miserable isn't it. Having had a bad phase a while back we are now down to the odd occasion. I think for DS it's largely sensory but occasionaly it seems to be liked to doing really well at something eg the other week using his PEcs folder and then coming home and treating himself! you made me laugh re sniffing various surfaces, I couldn't believe how many little places there are on a trike for poo to lurk.
hope it passes soon....., so to speak.

We've got fleecy all in ones from Vertbaudet, which work quite well in that it takes him longer to get up the leg! They're just too hot for summer. Will take a look at the other links - thanks.

Joggeroo - you've got me thinking now. DS2 is doing very well with his home programme - and having to work harder than he's ever done before - so I wonder if it could be linked in some way to that? He does tend to do it after the tutors have gone home and he's watching TV while I'm cooking tea in the kitchen. As soon as i went in yesterday he lay on his back (in the middle of all the poo) and lifted up his legs to signal I should change his nappy. Perhaps it's attention seeking? DH and I were thinking this morning of what kind of PECS sign we could make for poo that he could bring us.

Have you seen the Johnson Mayer site with the free Boardmaker downloads? Someone on here linked me to it and I printed off everything I possibly could in the 30 days you are given as a free trial. I'm sure they've got "poo".. they have everything... eg "flirt" and "horny" for teenagers!!

Could you sew socks to the bottom of the suits or are the legs too short now?
I don't know I'd call it attention seeking, more that perhaps he fancies a a really powerful experience for himself. When Ds does it after I think he's working hard at something (and I'm pleased), I think oh no, one step forward one back, whereas I think he views it as an impulsive irrisistable urge with a fine sensory reward, so to him, a good day all round! ...bit like the equivalent of a glass of wine after a good days work!
It's the one behiour that he does that really makes me want to dispair,
I tried to take comfort from the possibility that it was about awareness of bodily functions and a step on the road to toilet training, so we do loads of encouraging sits on the toilet and praise when he does hover non the toilet but really he's a million miles away from ready.
As for the card....I expect he'd be only too happy to help you make one...then you'd have poo inside the laminator too!! sorry, couldn't resist.

No its not me into poo smearing shiny, and yes nothing to be ashamed of but I was thinking more along the lines of TMI. OK then here's a example: I was cleaning the clients on-suite bathrooms and my collegue was in the next room changing one of the clients pads after a soiling. I could hear her saying to him to keep his hands out of the way ect. I then went in to assist and when I got there he had smeared all over the place, including the bathroom walls, his PJs, his hair, and worst of all my collegue's t-shirt It turned out that as soon as his nappy was removed he went and grabbed himself and then proceded to touch everything in sight. It took nearly a whole packet of baby wipes for the clean up mission. And a sluice wash for my collegues t-shirt, good job she was on a sleep night and had spare clothes

So if that sort of dissaster could happen when being changed I dread to think what could happen if left unattended.

Have only skimmed this thread but I reckon its a stim/sensory thing. Only connected to home prog in that he's not actively engaged all the time outside home prog, best time for stimming/sensory "play". We had poo issues for years, although confined to evening/night time TG! Sorry no real help.

Think you're right Davros - he tends to do it in the day when he's watching TV, which is also a time for maximum stimminess. It is mostly at night though - which funnily enough I don't mind so much. It's logical - do a poo, have to get it out, no-one around, OK, use hands. But in the day, when he could just come and ask...one of his two phrases is 'change nappy' fgs...

I don't think my DS has stims.

I think he does it purely for something to do and for the (negative) feedback he gets.. the disgust and distress he causes. The behaviour specialist has told us to just clear it up wordlessly, faces impassive, not looking him in the face or giving him any feedback at all.

That's v.hard to do. especially when the clean up job sometimes takes 2 hours (him then the bedroom ) but we are persevering. Not experienced it since he's been wearing the tights to bed anyway (touchwood)

Update. We've been sitting DS2 on the loo every night before bed (most common time for poo is just after he goes to bed) for the last 4 nights and then taking it in turns to sit outside his bedroom (out of sight) until we hear suspicious noises. I don't mind actually - get to read my book! Tonight I sat where he could see me and said to him 'if you do a poo, tell mummy'. No idea whether he could understand this or not. Anyway after about ten minutes of padding about he came to the door (he has a stairgate across it) and said 'poo' very matter-of-factedly. Praised him and changed nappy, but without a great to-do. He then went straight to sleep.

SO - maybe he's just doing it because there's no-one around? He never calls out for anyone - though he will come to find me if he wants something during the day. I think I'm going to try the poo PECS (!) and see if that works for day time.

ShinyHarry - have just tried the Johnson Mayer site - once i've got the free 30 day trial what do I click on? [Stupid emoticon].

Erm.. can't remember off top of head as can't access it any more because I've had my free trial.. but it gives you a page ("board") on which you can paste all the pecs-style pictures you want.. one after the other (takes ages if you want lots and they ARE good) and then you can print them off. Fiddle about with it.. it is fairly self explanatory I think because I am not the most techie person in the world.

You can only print 5 at a time without shutting the programme and then re-opening. Tedious but it IS a free trial.

You can also change the wording on the symbol if you want as some of them are a bit american (eg "gas pains" for wind!)

There must be something in the air as we have had over a week of smearing every night, after being smear free for months.

My DS is 4.5 and the majority of time only smears at night.

Although there is definately a sensory issue (after all he must get some enjoyment out of it, in order to get complete naked and cover himself head to toe in it, like a mud bath), I also think there is something to be said about a change of routine.

We have moved our DS into our bedroom, whilst we get his room plastered (we recently decorated his room and the new wall paper lasted approximately 6 hours) and we have moved ourselfs into our dining room as it is just too dangerous for us to share a room with him, especially as I am due our second child in 3 weeks time.

It is since all this moving the smearing started, so I feel it is the change in his routine that triggered this bout of smearing and once he started he remembered how much fun it is.

Like many others, it is this behaviour that I find hardest and the most exhausting, both physically and mentally (we started to worry how MIL will cope whilst I am in hospital giving birth).

However I had been looking at the all in one suits that have been mentioned on here, but I was lucky enough to notice some half price ones in mothercare this week, when picking up some baby bits. I bought some at £6 each two days ago and have had smearfree nights since, I am going to go into town this afternoon to pick up some more.

Before I got these, I was also considering the all in one swimsuit option, especially because of the heat.

Before getting the all in one suits I also tried massaging with baby lotion, to see if fulfilling a sensory stimulation that he may be missing because of the school holidays would work. All I learnt was the smell of baby lotion and poo mixed together is not a pleasent one, lol.