Do I have no choice but to Home Ed?

[CarmenWedmore]

DS is 6, recently diagnosed ASD with a PDA (demand avoidant) profile. So far he’s attended school for Reception and Year 1, now in Year 2. Has never really wanted to go and, despite the school making lots of adjustments, we are in school refusal mode and I simply can’t get him there. His attendance was fine in Reception (he did half days) but has gradually deteriorated. Yesterday we managed to get him there as DH was around but this involved carrying him most of the way. He has epic meltdowns and taking privileges away makes no difference.

I’m starting to think I may have no choice but to Home Ed - has anyone been in a similar situation? Any advice welcome please.

I've been in contact with quite a few home educating families and I cannot see how a year at home at this age would do any damage. He won't be behind academically certainly. It isn't such a big step as you imagine, and there is nothing to stop you re-enrolling him at any point in a primary school, unless the school he is in now is your absolute preference and it is very very hard to get into.

If he isn't enjoying school at all, and it is creating terrible stresses to get him in against his will, might it be worth just seeing how it goes out of school? September is a lovely month to start home educating, there are usually lots of park meetups, everyone is quite energised at this point in the year and full of plans/sociability. There isn't any reason why he shouldn't see children and do interesting things/learn stuff at his own pace, even if he isn't in a formal classroom.

Check out the local home educating scene, (there will be some closed facebook groups for example if you start investigating) Otherwise, there are all the usual after school clubs and activities to get involvedwith (sport, craft, Beavers, music) if you feel you need to give him some organised structured activities.

Read as much as you can before you make a decision. There is a home educating section of Mumsnet too.

Ds2 has ASD, managed primary all right with a fair few issues along the way, I home educated him in secondary for two years, and realised how easy it would have been at primary.

If you don't feel up to home educating, consider the anxiety factor. What is the cause of the anxiety at school (most meltdowns are anxiety based, so privilege withdrawal really doesn't help or consequences), would a different school suit better, could you apply for an EHCP (ds2 has one now that he is back at school, it makes such a difference and allowed him to attend the right school for him)

It is absolutely your right to electively home educate and no-one can stop you, unless your child was already enrolled in a special school. You don't have to employ tutors or do elaborate lesson planning, nor do you have to spend every moment "teaching" or supervising - part of the joy o f home educating is about finding space when you can both just "be". It isn't really like the holidays, I found, because it isn't a suspension of normal life like the holidays, it is just a way of life. Ds2 used to have terrible meltdowns in the holidays, because school was hanging over him, and he was dreading it. This ceased when he was home educated, and knew what was happening next (school was a unknown frightening random thing, ironically, for him) And when he loved school again, holidays meltdowns were also a thing of the past.

OP I feel for you. My ds has just started year 1 and we have periods where he just refuses to go in, usually around times of change. He has always been persuaded to go later in the day so far but I know a time will likely come where he won’t.

He can’t articulate why he doesn’t want to go yet. Like your ds, school make lots of accommodations for him but he clearly still finds aspects of it difficult. Obviously I hope it won’t happen but home ed is a possibility down the line if things don’t work out.

I’ve actually been reading about it as I investigated ways to help scaffold his learning at school and it’s quite interesting if you ignore the aspect of getting no time to yourself.

The Charlotte Mason approach really appeals to me and is very popular in the US right now so there are lots of blogs and YouTube videos about it. I think it would suit ASD children quite well. I’m no longer scared that I couldn’t teach him, which did worry me initially, however getting him to engage would be a completely different story!

So no real advice, I’m afraid, but lots of sympathy.

Thank you both. Nettle, you make it sound like a much more positive thing than I thought. Do you find that you still manage to get any time to yourself? I worry about it just bring DS and I, particularly as he avoids groups/crowds and so joining a home Ed group would be unlikely.

I think what worries me is my ability to actually motivate DS and engage him as he resists all ‘demands’ on him.

Open, I haven’t heard of the Charlotte Mason approach so will definitely investigate. Not that it’s a good thing but I find it comforting that I’m not the only one going through this! How is your school about DS’ absences/attendance? Are they supportive?

So far the school are very supportive because they know we are trying and that it’s not our choice. He has an EHCP and 1:1 support and they know this is an issue from time to time. The head told me that she worries more about the children whose parents just constantly tell them they are sick - I’m sure they know which children are likely to be genuinely sick and which aren’t.

I think because they also struggle sometimes (often?) to get him to do things he doesn’t want to, like coming in from the playground after the lunchtime break, they understand how hard it can be.

I worry because I honestly don’t know how strict we should be and what is the best approach, there are no guidelines it seems. In the beginning we tried to take a hard line and took toys away and it resulted in meltdown. It just didn’t feel right and made things worse. Now we try to use positive reinforcement as much as possible. My goal has to be longer term rather than just trying to get him in on that particular day by any means necessary. He has to want to go because although I can force him in the car I can’t keep him in his car seat, nor will I carry him into school kicking and shouting which I have done before and it’s awful.

We were nearly an hour and a half late going in today. When he finally deigned to go it still took me and the TA nearly half an hour to persuade him to go inside the building.

DS3 is Yr2 EhCP refused to issue and have tribunal in November. Year 1 was awful, he's got a better teacher this year but already spending half morning out of class and is only in mornings as it is. Supposed to be full-time from next week.

I think Yr1 messed him up so badly he needs a period of home ed to recover from it. DH not in agreement yet though.

So no advice, but I'm right there wondering why I'm taking my child into an environment he finds mostly impossible

open that’s good the school are supportive. I do believe our school is doing all they can. I was on the phone to the head of school today and we’ve agreed a reduced timetable starting off with an hour a day. My problem is that I just can not get him there - it’s physically impossible for me to do on my own and like you, carrying him screaming is horrendous. At least your DS will go in eventually! How do you manage to get him in, any tips?! DS sat at home again today .

Yes Dobbin, I feel as though I’m flogging a dead horse for want of a better expression. How long do we keep on trying for??

We chose the school which is a small, nurturing village school knowing that he had sn’s though he wasn’t diagnosed when we applied. I was very impressed with the head and reception teacher and just loved it compared to our local school which I did not think would suit him.

I’m not sure you would want to use our tips, they involve a lot of (bribery) rewards. When we have these periods we tell him that if he goes in every day then he can have a toy at the end of the week, not necessarily something big but something related to his current craze. It’s sometimes effective sometimes not and obviously not for everyone.

Otherwise, he doesn’t have the iPad or tv until after school hours but I don’t stop him playing with his toys.

We talk about the children and staff and what they are/might be doing.

But mainly we’re just winging it.

The thing is I do believe he mostly likes school. He is quite sociable on his own terms, though is socially immature. He has a lot of fun at school and even on the days where he hasn’t wanted to go he is usually ok when he gets there. He doesn’t act up at home after school.

I think it’s a combination of him not being happy about certain aspects including change (the move to year 1 is huge) but I also think that sometimes he is just not ready and wants to go on his own terms or only when he’s ready. But really, who knows. Until he is able to tell us more then we are just guessing.

I think having a reduced timetable is a double edged sword because if you miss your agreed window that’s it?

There have been a few days where I haven’t got ds to school until 1:15 but I still count that as a positive and am glad he’s gone in and enjoyed it for a couple of hours. I appreciate that if they don’t enjoy it then it’s not quite the same.

I suppose it depends on what their reasons are for refusing, is he able to tell you?

I really feel for you. I have had many many of days like this with my Dd between yr1 and he 4. She is now quite happy in yr6 (since we got proper help!)

We got seen by camhs and she was on the waiting list for asd assessment. Everyone assumed she would be assessed as having PDA 'traits' ( they don't recognise PDA in Gloucestershire!) . My DH and I went in courses and learnt as much as we could about PDA.

In the meantime my dd's amazing psychologist at camhs did an IQ test as she said she wanted to do a full MOT. The result of the IQ test was that dd is above average intelligence for logic, reasoning, working memory (75th percentile) and very low (5th percentile) for speed of processing.
Apparently this explains everything! Why she struggles to learn effectively, although clearly bright (slow, not demand avoidant). Why she can't get ready in the morning (slow, not demand avoidant) why she hates playground games with someone else's rules (slow to keep up, not avoiding).

I'm not saying your son has the same thing as my Dd at all, but I think it is absolutely worth asking camhs to do a cognitive assessment on him as it may be interesting in any case.
In my Dd school, now that they are aware of her extreme slow processing, and her high intelligence they've been able to much better tailor to her needs.

I would definitely get an echp rolling. Once you have this and a full list of all his needs, you have the option at looking at whether there are any schools that can provide him with a suitable education (even in private). He, and you, have a right for him to have an education at a school. Home education should not be your only option, even if you feel it would be the best thing for now.

We home educated DS for a while due to similar issues. We eventually found a brilliant special school and did a long transition. He’s been there a few years now and is extremely happy and settled.

To get past the issues of him refusing to do work at home, we allowed him to be involved in making a vague timetable. We weren’t strict with it but it gave some structure to the day and he was willing to do work because he felt that he had some control over it.

"joining a home ed group" can mean seeing families with home educated children for an hour a week!!! It is not so formal as joining anything really, just meeting other people with similar approaches, on occasion.
I find I got more time because I wasn't in a state of high tension trying to deal with ds1's anxiety, and we could go at our own pace. I had two other children in school, which slightly upped the ante though, without that, my day would have been a blissful round of reading interesting books with ds, going to the park and watching him running round around with other children (for the first time included and not the odd one out) He also made a good friend, who he still sees, again that freed me up.

You have to ask what benefit school (which is after all a noisy crowded place) has for a child who hates crowds. You can build up their tolerance of socialising, new places and experiences in a much more appropriate way.

But ds2 did get a lot out of primary, I am not denying that. But he wasn't refusing to go in at all. The pressure just built slowly in such a way that it was affecting his ability to learn. His reading and writing were terrible by year 6 and he wasn't really getting any tailored help. They couldn't provide it and deal with his social issues. They offered pastoral care, but the academics suffered. He became anxious about lessons. I took him out because I couldn't see how they could help him in THAT setting (secondary) He went back in Year 10 and is doing A levels now, in humanity subjects. He received excellent gsce grades, quite unrelated to his year 6 predictions. Yes it was a lot of effort, but at least it was time we both enjoyed, compared to the hair tearing investment you make dealing with a highly anxious school refuser day after day.

The slow processing issues are very important ones to address, most demand avoidance is because the child loses confidence in their ability to do most tasks, because they got lost somewhere along the way. When you home educate, your child is never behind. He is where he needs to be for him on that particular day. Whereas in a class, yes the other children work cooperatively to encourage your child's learning, but your child can end up feeling they cannot keep up and give up, avoid. Which is why things can get worse when the child leaves the Reception year, and goes into more formal classes Year 1 and 2.

Open we’ve done loads of bribery with DS in the past - a new toy he really wants at end of the week, chocolate just to get him dressed etc etc - but it’s not working any more . It’s almost as though he’s risen above it and is immune to our bribes. We can’t realky get out of him why he doesn’t want to go - he just says the same things as before which I know have been addressed now at school.

putyourback that’s very interesting about the cognitive assessment. I know DS had some sort of cognitive tests in his assessment so will look into what they say. All his other traits do point to PDA though - huge meltdowns, ‘Jekyll and hyde’ character etc.

I think I need to speak to the school about an EHCP.

Part of me feels it would just be easier to de register him and home ed .., thank you nettle for clarifying re home ed groups!

They are always one step ahead, aren’t they? The same strategy doesn’t seem to work forever.

Hopefully the school will support an EHCP application, though we have one and we still have periodic refusal.

Have you spoken to ds about having to do work at home if he’s not going to school?

Hi Carmen,

Yes do look into it, if for no other reason it might give you more insight into any spikes in differing areas of his intelligence. I have to say though, slow processing does present in the same way s PDA. The huge meltdowns and jekyl and Hyde are sadly something we experienced very often.
A psychologist friend of mine thinks cognitive issues are very commonly misdiagnosed as PDA. It's important to be certain of the difference as the child will need to be treated differently.

For instance my Dd was having play therapy for her 'anger issues' which did frankly nothing to help, but I felt better doing something. Now, she has a mentor rather than therapy that she meets with once a week through school. They have given her the confidence to say to grown ups ' please can you repeat the question, as it sometimes takes me a little longer to grasp new information'. This is still a work in progress as she does get embarrassed a fair bit which I think is understandable but we've gone from a school refusing, swimming lesson refusing, any club refusing, under achieving child to one who today is giving a presentation in assembly to ask to be house captain, and last night she had her first swimming lesson (albeit 121) in years.

Apologies if I sound evangelical about this, but I just can't get my head around the change in her since we've had the diagnosis, and yet I know we were a whisker away from a PDA diagnosis.

Hope it was ok getting your Ds to school this morning

open it is important not to talk about work as if it is a difficult threatening thing. When you are home educating you aren't doing "work" in the sense of a horrible imposition or a task that you don't want to do. It is about learning through the medium of play and experiencing all sorts of things, investigating ideas, craft, places. Reading and writing doesn't have to be a separate thing from play or fun if it presented to the child in a harmonious integrated way. Drama for example, or fairytales can be reading practice, tracing letters or writing sentences can be in the context of art or imaginative play, ie we are writing a big notice on every room in the house to say what room it is, ie bedroom, bathroom, living room. Or pretend notices, this is the zoo, this is the jungle, this is the moon.

I don't think children mind "work", after all play is a form of work, awhat they might not like is being forced to do something they cannot do, or which they fear for various reasons, possibly fear of failing lack of interest inabiilty to hold pencil, understand what you are asking. Making a cake can be work, holding the spoon, reading the instructions, following the order of events, weighing things. Knitting or building blocks can be work. Going on an outing can be work for a child that finds transitions hard, talking about what they see and drawing a picture of it afterwards can be work.

Nettleskeins point taken. I suppose it depends what the problem is. If it’s bullying or sensory issues, for instance, then the child might not mind doing formal work at all.

Hi, I found your thread a couple of days ago while in the middle of trying to solve our flavour of a similar problem. Reception year at lovely school a disaster. Y1 not looking any better even with more support in school.

To my astonishment there's now an EHCP application in and agreement for a reduced timetable. It has taken about 3 years to get to this point - I started asking for help and assessment in nursery - but things only started to really move at the end of last term.

Good luck with your situation. Following the advice on this thread I'm going to make contact with local home schoolers.