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SN children

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

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Original poster

Oops - subject should be - PECS advice please!

17 replies

heartinthecountry · 21/09/2004 20:46

Was going to jump in on meea's thread but decided to start a new one. I am interested in exploring PECS for my dd. Can anyone suggest how old a child might need to be to start? dd is nearly 2 but probably has the language understanding of about a 10 month old. Too early?

And can you combing PECS and Makaton? She has just (literally last 6 weeks) started imitating some gestures (clapping, waving) and occassionally signs 'more' but only in one situation (when she wants more ice-cream!). So I have been planning to follow the makaton route. But very interested to hear any opinions or experiences.

OP posts:

Dingle · 21/09/2004 21:45

HITC,as you may know, my dd has DS, and is fast approaching 3. We have no knowlegde of PECS.
We have recently started private SALT, specialising in DS. DD doesn't have much vocal vocabulary, but uses in excess of 150 signs, using Signalong (similar to Makaton) and since using Jolly Phonics with her (started late JUly)she is copying the action and saying the phonic sound for at least 10 sounds.
The therapist also sees some friends babies who are not yet 6months.It is interesting to know that she is even at that age suggesting the use of sound cards

InternationalGirl · 21/09/2004 21:48

Hi heartinthecountry!!
PECS - we've done a bit of PECS with DD. Also did a little bit of makaton. They are really stepping stones to her language for us. She has started to talk so much more we have cut back on the PECS and just started REALLY talking to her because that's ultimately what we want. Now we know more about how PECS can work for us we are using it as it suits (e.g. we use a visual timetable at home and are trying to encourage the school to do so as well).

IMO I don't think your DD is too young - just keep it simple and only bring in one or two new things at a time until she 'gets it'.

Do you have any makaton or PECS resources? We might be able to help you with some good pecs pics.

If you can - try to contact me via another talker.

Christie · 21/09/2004 22:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jimjams · 21/09/2004 22:25

PECS is easiest to start with 2 people. So you start with one picture- something that she absolutely loves. One person hold it in front of her- the other person sits behind her. As soon as she goes to reach for the object the person sitting behind her (the physical prompter) takes her hand, holds his hand over hers and picks up the PECS card and hands it to the person with the object. The person then says the name of the object "buttons" (in our case) and then hands her the button (quickly- has to be within a second or two).

IME to teach PECS effectively you do need to work through it methodically - and go through the different phases- not moving in until they have mastered each phase- and not being scared to go back a phase if you have to. If you decide to go with it then the pyramid course is essential really. To get an idea of the different phases and how to do it you could order the PECS video from pyramid (god I sound like an ad). It's best to "see" it being taught properly really- the video isn't a training video but it does show all the phases- and it shows the early phases in most deatil. It would be enough to get started and see if you think its right for you.

Pyramid link is on the other thread!

Jimjams · 21/09/2004 22:27

sorry not clear- one person holds the OBJECT in front of her- the PECS card is on the table in front of her. Much easier to actually observe it being taught than explain! (which is waht the video does)

Original poster

heartinthecountry · 21/09/2004 22:35

Thanks everyone - really good advice. Dd is due to start SN nursery next week where they use makaton signing but I think I will start looking into PECS aswell.

IG - I'll try and CAT you.

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fio2 · 22/09/2004 06:54

HITC my dd is still in the early stages of learning PECS and she is 4. From what you have said our dd's sound very similar and it most probably would be too early to start using them properly. But...you could start incorporating some of the symbols into the day. Showing her a symbol before you give her/do something if that makes sense

I am sure the SN nursery will be a great help tbh

Original poster

heartinthecountry · 22/09/2004 10:05

That's a good idea Fio. TBH I don't think she would be able to use them 'properly' but she does love pictures so it might be a good route to communication for her eventually.

OP posts:

Jimjams · 22/09/2004 10:16

Fio- how are they training her? It is important to do it in the "right way"- going through all the phases in order and not moving on until one is established. Using visual timetables etc is all good, but not really part of PECS in terms of the communication bit iyswim. DS1 got the idea of that- but it didn't bring on his other communication. The two years I tried with ds1 weren't all that successful because I didn't really know what I was doing.

HITC- she's definitely not too young, but if you do it you do need to have help from somewhere/someone who knows what they are doing (just talking from my own experience )

RexandBen · 22/09/2004 10:33

HITC - if you are interested I have a PECS manual and video you can have (free of charge of course!). We were going to do PECS but in the end didn't. Contact me through CAT if you want them.

Original poster

heartinthecountry · 22/09/2004 13:53

Thanks rexandben - I'll CAT you.. and for additional advice Jimjams.

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fio2 · 22/09/2004 14:47

jimjams we are doing phase 1 atm. You know the showing her the symbol, her giving us the symbol, us giving her the item. If that makes sense

we are slowly going on to the choice of two things atm

we are very far off her giving us the velcro strip!

Jimjams · 22/09/2004 16:21

are you using a very strong reinforcer fio2? The only thing that worked for ds1 at phase 1 was chocolate buttons. He wasn't interested enough in much else to work for it. Once he understood the system them he was more than happy to expand - now he uses loads.

Jimjams · 22/09/2004 16:49

oh fiu- should say - those early stages of PECS are the ones that take the longest to establish I think (certainly ime). We tried a few things before realising that we really were going to have to start with only buttons as our reinforcer.

Now new cards etc are introduced rapidly and without needing a full physical prompt- (a tap on the card will do)- but the early days were slow.....

fio2 · 22/09/2004 17:30

she is doing really well jimjams. Its just with the move, stopping school then starting again, things have been a bit up in the air for all of us iykwim. Hopefully now she is back at school we can crack on with it. She is very good with pictures, more so than with signing as her concentration span is awful, so a picture is much better than a sign

i hope this makes sense!

and yes you are right as usual. School didnt want to push onto the next before she fully understood phase 1. the reinforcer is usually milk or chocolate too! she loves milk! aahhhh ds is happy with a blue sticky star, much healthier

Jimjams · 22/09/2004 18:09

I know what you mean about al the changes- that was part of the problem we had. Now everything is set up at school and home its all come together nicely. It's really good once they've got to grips with it so if its working for you I;d say definitely stick with it (makaton didn't work for us either).

fio2 · 22/09/2004 18:11

oh but the guilt jimjams of not making it easier for her. i feel awful sometimes, but its moving is life and should be normal. She doesnt seem bothered though, bless her!

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