How can you tell if your child has a SEN or not? Concerned about dd - bit long...........

[worriedparent]

Have also posted this in 'education' topic, but thought I might get some answers here too. TIA

Just got dd's report. She's underachieving in maths and reading/writing amongst other things. I am concerned for her future and I've worried about her since she started school. I don't wish to compare her with my other two, one younger and one older, but I have no worries about how they will do at school. Dd, however, I have always worried about. Since she was very small, it has been clear her concentration skills are poor and her attention span is very short. She cannot sit still. I read her a book every night, yet she cannot sit still to listen, but rather is all over the place half listening whilst doing other things. She is one of the youngest in her year and rather immature at that. She will not be seven until after they break up for summer. She often says things which are inappropriate (can't think of an example), yet doesn't have the understanding that what she's said might make her unpopular with her friends, yet she's desperate to be popular. Emotionally, she is very sensitive and already feels different from her peers. She has little confidence in herself and is easily upset.

I don't know if going down the route of investigating whether or not there is some sort of attention deficit problem and whether or not anything can be done to help her is the right thing to do, or whether this is just dd and what she will be like. At this rate though, she will be a low achiever and that worries me for her future. She is willing, but it seems, not so able and the information is just not going in, yet she is a bright enough girl.

Her teacher has been great and she has come on brilliantly (for her) with her reading this year, but is still miles behind some of her peer group.

As well as all that, a few other people have noticed 'something' about her which caused concern. This information is a bit vague at the moment, but the person who called me to mention it is going to speak to the person who made the observations and find out what they meant. This particular person has a solid background in working with children with similar issues and also children on the autistic spectrum, although I'm pretty sure that autism/asperger's is not the problem.

I'm thinking worst case scenario is an ADD problem, so if anyone has any experience of this I'd be greatful for any suggestions or information or whether I'm reading far too much into this and that dd is perfectly normal. I am very worried for her though and if her 'symptoms' do need investigating, where do I go for help?

Any parents of children with ADD or similar around?

bump

Hi, has her teacher noticed anything different abouut her?

I would take her to your GP & then ask her/him to refer her to a specialist at CAMHS. That way you will find out for sure and then she will get the help if she needs it.

I was the youngest in my year by quite a bit and really struggled with the social/maturity aspect of school. Then I repeated and was amongst the oldest. This massivly improved my ability to relate socially and allowed me to cocentrate more on my school work - was in top 3 in the year from then onwards.
Don;t know if that helps?

Thanks Louisa. What is CAMHS?

Child and Adult Mental Health Services.

I would ask your GP to refer you to a developmental paediatrician at a child development centre rather than CAMHS.

Sorry, meant to type adolescent rather than adult.

I'm not sure they would allow her to reapeat though SweetDarling, although I think that wouldn't be a bad idea. She's not emotionally mature enough to cope with a lot of 'normal' school stuff which comes her way.

I spoke to her teacher today and she assures me she thinks dd is doing well and working hard and is a good average. So why does her report then say she is underachieving in the main areas?

It seems they have to go by some target thingy and tick the appropriate box and unless they're achieving all the criteria required, then the teacher can't say they've achieved the satisfactory level expected, even if they have achieved 'most' od#f the expected criteria.

I'm thinking I'm worrying over nothing and am completely paranoid, but her lack of attention and concentration show at home and she's so easily distracted that I can't see how this would be different at school.

I have 2 ADHD boys. A husband with ADD(amongst other problems) and i work at the CAB , specialising in helping families with disabled kids. I read through what you have written and i think it sounds like you need to seek out some professional second opinions, and start researching.

FRom what youre saying, it sounds like it 'could' be ADD, but i say 'could' very tentatively because theres so much variation between kids and some kids are just 'slow starters'.

You could talk to the teacher and the SENCo but from what ive found there is variation between schools...some are rather ignorant of ADD/ADHD, responding to enquiries with the classic and inaccurate stereotype "does he/she have a lot of sweets/pop". LOL.

A better source of help and support will be your local NHS childrens resource centre/department. If you speak to your doctor they will refer you (if they agree with you). But personally i got a better response when i turned up at the NHS childrens centre and refused to leave until the secretary had put me on the waiting list to speak over my concerns with a child psychologist. And even then i had to come back in on 2 occasions and stand in reception to make them hurry me up the queue. If you dont push you will languish in a waiting list for months or years!!!!!! (yes i know theres supposed to be a 13 week waiting time limit the theory of that doesnt come through in practice!)

I found some useful books in the library, and there is some literature about the primarily inattentive form that girls are more likely to suffer - ADD.

The NHS kids centre gave me contact details for local support groups, and you might want to speak to some of the mums in your area.

I have some books to recommend but ill have to go find them and my boys are going hyper round me as i type which is exhausting so ill have to type them in later.

Finally remember, you are your childs advocate, noone knows her better than you, you need to become the expert in issues that affect her. You cant rely on others to be the expert for you. Suck your library dry of info, speak to other parents in support groups, trawl the internet.

I think if you are concerned then there is an issue, we all know our kids the best. And definitely if you have two other kids then you can see the differences.

My DS1 definitely had issues, he hid them very well at school and like your daughter was underachieving.

I haven't gone down the SEN route as I didn't feel that the issues were extreme enough. However, I have looked at his symptoms and said they are quite similar to children who have dxysprasia, hyperactive and ADHD - I have researched and trawled the internet and have tried to understand him a bit better. That has helped me to alter my parenting of him, looked at his diet, concentrated on his self esteem etc...

It has made a huge difference and he is now a year on achieving at school, still has social problems in the playground but i just keep on plugging away and trying to adapt all the time.

Trust your instinct, the labels are not a statement of failure on yours or yours child's behalf. They can be a tool which will help you and her. Hope that helps.

Thank-you lielel and kaz33 for your posts. It is hard not to compare the children when the other two seem to grasp everything so easily and providing they put the work in should be reasonably high achievers, but no matter how much work dd will put in, she's just not going to be in that category going by where she is right now. She's definitely not a disruptive child or what one would call hyperactive at all, but it's the attention thing which I feel is holding her back and certain aspects of her social emotional development which she has no apparant control over (ie things she says which make her appear hostile when she isn't a hostile child iyswim).

I will keep a close eye on her over the summer and see how she copes at the beginning of term and if I'm still woried, then I will take my worries to the GP.

Her teacher has never taught her brother, and I haven't mentioned his abilities to her (because of not wanting school to compare them etc), so the worries I have seem insignificant to her and that dd's progress is good for dd. I just don't know. Her behaviour isn't extreme, so I kind of feel like you did kaz33, and I think she does mask things at school. I have observed her during a lesson (when the TA managed to prize her off me - she's desperately clingy to me if I ever visit the class for any reason and makes it hard for me to leave), and despite sitting quietly and not disrupting anyone else, she was fidgety and had her hand in the sand tray, in the book trays and her mind was anywhere but where it should have been and it wasn't because I was there (other parents there too to observe a lesson). Others were participating, but dd just wasn't with it, hence slow progress with anything mathematical I'm sure!

"I will keep a close eye on her over the summer and see how she copes at the beginning of term and if I'm still woried, then I will take my worries to the GP".

I would not leave this till the beginning of the new school term; delaying seeking advice is understandable (you don't want her of course to have a potential SN problem) - but any further delay will not help her. You have, after all, worried about her since she started school.

A "label" should be seen as a signpost to getting more help.

This was my thread and I'm not going to bother to name-change now. Th update is that I took my concern (three A4 pages worth) to the GP and I have got a referral. The appointment isn't until February and to be honest I was beginning to have doubts in my concerns as nothing had been said at school that there could be a problem.

I made an appointment to see her teacher a few months ago and voiced my concerns. He said he'd keep an eye on her and we'd see how things go. I went in again after school today to chat things over with him and lo and behold there was a letter for me from the SENCO. I can't tell you the relief and emotion I felt that finally, someone has noticed things aren't right. The main concern is her use of social language they are going to put her on a SULP programme. This backs up my fears for her and tells me it's not just at home that we see the difficulties. I'm going to make an appointment to see the SENCO tomorrow and take it from there.

Aero ~ you have nothing to feel bad about. Hopefully once you see a professional such as a paed or someone else at CAMHS you will manage to get to the bottom of exactly what is going on.
Not heard of a SULF programme before???
Remember as long as your dd is getting the help she needs that's all that matters x

SULP is Social use of Language programme. I know nothing about it other than a little I read online earlier and that it is used to help children with specific SEN.

i am sure my dd must use it then as that's where her main difficulties lie

Have updated this in a new thread BH here, as this isn't coming up in active convos.

Have met with the SENCO and she's on the case and supports our concerns. AD/HD (apparantly ADD is an out of date term) without hyperactivity is suspected. The problems which are causing concerns are with attentiveness and impulsiveness (are thos words?) . Am feeling pretty crap about it all tbh, although very relieved that school have picked up on the problems too.

The SENCO will compile a record ahad of dd's appt next month so the consultant/pead will have a clear picture of her behaviour at school.

I would be grateful for experiences of AD/HD, esp in girls, or whre hyperactivity isn't involved.

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Sorry to keep bumping - think I just want some sympathy.......

((Aero)). On the one hand, it's nice for someone to agree with your concerns, but on the other it's tough when they do agree, as sometimes you secretly hope it's just being neurotic. I really know very little about ADD/ADHD. I am aware that there is an ADD/ADHD forum called Adders (www.adders.org) that may have more info.

Thanks TC - it might not be AD/HD (although she ticks most of the boxes), but definitely something ain't right and the older she gets the more apparant things become. I feel strongly that if she isn't dx'd with something, then she won't get the help sh neds and will end up under-achieving. This is what worries me most. I hate the fact that I think she needs a label as it were!

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Hi

I will tell you a little story. My daugher was a bright girl but started primary 1 as an average student, I could not understand this as she was bright, but could not concentrate for very long, was very active extremely so in fact that I did consider hyperactivity. She could not sit still for a moment, her leg was twitching and she was jumping about even with homework. Homework was hard as she could not sit still for long. At the end of primary 1 she was doing well but still average says and does silly things like other children, some do some don't, basically depends on maturity and personality. Primary 2 I cut all juice out of her diet, she used to have an unlimited supply, thought it was healthy as fresh, cut out all sweets and food with any artificial colours as well (not so difficult as I thought as supermarkets are all coming on board above "Es" and started to see a difference with concentration she is in Primary 3 basically she is in the top group for maths now (I also was concentrating with mental arithmatic in the car as well as reciting timetables) she is also top of one of the top groups for English. She is still very jumping around and still does and says silly things, but cutting a long story short, the juice, "Es" were cut out and her grades have improved dramatically, she can sit and do her homework by herself and concentrate. Don't let people label your daughter until you have tried all things first.