Please or to access all these features

SN children

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

Nursery and nappies, please help!

10 replies

WeCameToDance · 04/05/2019 19:04

Hello! I really hope somebody can help me with this query.
My son is 3 and a half and is suspected to have Sen of some variety. He is developmentally delayed but is still in the process of being assessed in various clinics so we don't really know where this is heading.
Anyway he started nursery this week after a long fight with the school to get them to take him. I suspect that they are not too fond of me as we had to involve the local mp in the end. My question is regarding nappies. The school clearly do not like the fact he is not toilet trained. We are trying and he is nearly there but he is immensely stubborn and frightened of the toilet. He claims he is too little to use a toilet. The school have decided that there way of dealing with this is to phone me and get me to come up to the school and change him everytime he soils himself. In theory this is fine and most of the time I will be able to make it but on some occasions I might not be able to get there immediately.
Are they allowed to stipulate this? They say they can as he has no diagnoses other than being developmentally delayed. I feel like it's another trick to discourage me from sending him. Not sending him is not an option as he loves it there.
Anyone know anything about this? I woulf really appreciate some advice!

OP posts:
Littlefish · 04/05/2019 19:15

No, they are absolutely not allowed to stipulate this, if they are a state nursery, or a private nursery that accepts funding. Have a look at the ERIC website and see if you can find the legal position - I think it's something to do with the DDA (Disability Discrimination Act, or something like that).

Was the involvement with the GP over the nappy issue or something else?

I am absolutely appalled that there are still schools and nurseries out there with attitudes like this.

Whether your son likes it there or not, the school and nursery have shown their attitude to children with differences. Do you really want to send your child there? I wouldn't.

WeCameToDance · 04/05/2019 19:30

Thank you for responding! They are a state funded school.
The involvement with the mp was because they were being very cagey about taking him this term (he is entitled legally to start this term but before they knew of his delay they actually offered him a place from the beginning of Febuary). It was a case of we will call you to arrange a meeting after his start date where we will decide everything and I basically should just sit and agree with whatever they say.
In all honesty I have nothing but bad feeling towards the school. My plan was to see how he gets on for the next few weeks and if I'm still not happy I will move him. I'm just hoping that I'm not going to encounter this problem with every school I talk to.
I am going to take a look at that website and see if I can find some evidence that will help.

OP posts:
Itwouldtakemuchmorethanthis · 04/05/2019 19:35

No, they change him. The easiest way to fix it is to write to them and thank them for helping him be so happy at school, and tell them you won’t be able to come and change him during the day next week.
Then GO OUT.

Littlefish · 04/05/2019 21:43

The following is taken from the ERIC website. This is for schools, but I would think it applies to a school nursery that takes funding.

  1. Do two members of staff need to be present to change my child?
There is no legal requirement for two members of staff to be present, so schools should not refuse to clean a child if only one member of staff is available to leave the classroom.

For safeguarding reasons, staff who help with intimate care should make sure another member of staff is aware they are going to change a child and is in the vicinity and visible or audible (see page 14 of the 'Guidance for safer working practice for those working with children and young people in education settings', 2015).

It is good practice to ensure that all aspects of continence care in school are documented in advance, for instance using an individual health care plan making sure parental consent is obtained for named carers to meet the child's needs.

The guidance also states that 'intimate or personal care procedures should not involve more than one member of staff unless the pupil’s care plan specifies the reason for this.' So not only is there no need for two members of staff to be present, it is in fact discouraged unless the child needs two members of staff.

  1. Are schools allowed to call a parent or carer in to change their child if they've had an accident?

Although school staff should use their discretion and judge each case on its merits with reference to a child’s individual healthcare plan, it is not generally acceptable practice to ask parents to come into school to change their child after they've wet or soiled themselves.

Only one member of staff needs to be present when changing a child, as long as another member of staff is nearby, so it shouldn't be necessary to call in a parent (see answer to question 2).

It is tantamount to abuse to force/allow a child to sit in wet or soiled underwear until their parent or guardian can come in to change them.

For more detail on this and other unacceptable practice, see the statutory guidance on implementing the Children and Families Act.

The Department for Education's statutory guidance on supporting pupils at school with medical conditions states it is not acceptable for schools to:

Prevent pupils from drinking, eating or taking toilet or other breaks whenever they need to in order to manage their medical condition effectively;

Require parents, or otherwise make them feel obliged, to attend school to administer medication or provide medical support to their child, including with toileting issues. No parent should have to give up working because the school is failing to support their child’s medical needs;

Prevent children from participating, or create unnecessary barriers to children participating in any aspect of school life, including school trips, e.g. by requiring parents to accompany the child.

123bananas · 04/05/2019 21:55

My ds has ASD and in school nursery had the developmental age of a 15 month old, he was not diagnosed for most of that time. We were never called in to change him. He has only just come out of pull ups in reception. The school had a form we signed and only the staff named on that form could change him. It also had a section that we later used for a parent-teacher plan for toileting/toilet training so we could be consistent between home and school, it came from a local authority template. Ask to speak to the school SENCO to discuss this and if that doesn't help the special needs education department team at the local authority. It is their duty to meet his needs even if he is not yet diagnosed, that includes personal care.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/send-code-of-practice-0-to-25

Tulipsarefab · 04/05/2019 22:03

I am a teacher in a nursery which is part of a primary school. We would never turn a child in nappies away (I have two or three in my class at various stages of toilet training at the moment). We always change our children as soon as they need it and wouldn’t dream of calling a parent in to do it.

WeCameToDance · 04/05/2019 22:17

Thank you so much everyone! This has been very helpful. Littlefish that information was exactly what I was looking for. I have emailed a local charity asking if they can clarify the legal position for the area I am in and then I will take it to the school who I can guarantee will be difficult about it.
It's disheartening that the SENCO for the school seems to be the worst of all. It disgusts me that somebody who clearly holds contempt for my childs disabilities is in charge of looking out for children with SEN. The woman objected to my son starting nursery as she felt it would be 'setting him up to fail'. Ffs. He is 3. How can he possibly fail!? Anyway I'm rambling now. Thank you everyone.

OP posts:
MumUnderTheMoon · 06/05/2019 21:26

This is not fine in theory. It would be very disruptive to your ds day. Is he isn't toilet trained then he needs a classroom assistant to change him or to help him change himself. I was in a similar position with my dd but I insisted she have a classroom assistant. Initially she was only allocated enough hours to attend school two days a week but they eventually realised she needed full time assistance.

coco2891 · 23/05/2019 22:46

This is exactly the problem I had . It's against the law for them to discriminate-they have a duty of car and to leave a child in wet or soiled clothing (inc nappies) is neglect . Makes my blood boil . I ended up putting him in a different nursery and going back making a complaint to the governors -took local council parent pupil liaison officer with
Me who read them the riot act -and they've now had to change all the policies . You let them have it -good luck x

coco2891 · 23/05/2019 22:48

Argh and like you the sendco suggested I delayed starting him until he was ready 🤬

New posts on this thread. Refresh page