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Original poster

Help! DD1 only in school for 2 hours a day. How can she become full time

56 replies

Larrissaa · 11/01/2019 09:39

My DD1 is currently in reception she is 4 years old she will be 5 in 2 months. She was diagnosed with delayed language development. At the moment the school is only willing to accept her for just 2 hours a day as they have no extra funding to increase her hours. She has a paediatric assessment soon. The echp was not approved for her, the school said they needed more evidence that she requires extra help hence the paediatric review. She currently attends both private and nhs speech and language development. She is making progress she can express herself and sometimes starts conversations but she is not making friends in school. I am at my wits end, I have to go back to work. How can I get her to start full time school, I feel she is missing out greatly in school. Academically she is ok, her reading is at level 2-level 3, she knows her sums, numbers to 50 and can spell some words and also go with high frequency words. All these I have taught her. I am on mat leave but will be resuming work soon. Should I take her to a private school, or can I contribute toward the funding required by the school. I really need advice and help. I am desperate for her to start full time school

OP posts:
livpotter · 11/01/2019 09:53

Who rejected the EHCP? If the school can only have her in for 2 hours a day because they can't support her then that is more than enough grounds for an EHCP!

The legal bar for applying is that your child MAY have SEN and that they MAY need the support of an EHCP.

Original poster
Larrissaa · 11/01/2019 10:23

The headteacher said there was not enough evidence to support the ehcp application. That hopefully after a paediatric assessment is 6 weeks away.that may boost her chance of having it approved and that it takes a very lengthy process.
Can I support the school financially until the ehcp comes through.

OP posts:
livpotter · 11/01/2019 10:40

It's not the Headteacher's call to say whether there is enough evidence or not. Have you got it in writing that your dd can only attend 2 hours a day? I would try and get a call back from IPSEA or look at the SOSSEN website for more advice.

You can apply for the EHCP yourself if you feel the school are dragging their feet. The process legally should take 20 weeks from start to finish, in practice it usually takes longer as sometimes you have to appeal decisions. It's a pain to do but totally worth getting one in place.

I have met someone who paid for their child's 1:1 before but I'm not sure how it works in practice. I imagine you would have to discuss it with the school

LightTripper · 11/01/2019 10:45

If they can't take her more than 2 hours a day then surely that is clear evidence that she needs extra support to access school - otherwise she would be there full time already?

I am not an expert but it doesn't sound legal to exclude her on this basis. I agree a call from IPSEA or SOSSEN sounds a good place to start, and to apply for the EHCP yourself if school won't support. Sounds like your DD is doing brilliantly academically so I'm sure she won't fall behind while you're applying, but obviously you want to get it in place before that might start to happen (and if you are going back to work and have another little one presumably the sooner the better!)

KateGrey · 11/01/2019 10:52

Been there last year. We were doing 45 minutes a day. We had an ehcp and also funding to ensure a ft 1:1. My dd was discriminated against and we ended up in court. She’s now in a specialist school as there was no way I wanted to try another mainstream. Where’s the senco in all of this? These are illegal exclusions. Please keep them noted. Follow up everything in an email. Where is there plan to transition your dd to full time school? I’d get them to appeal for an ehcp. Without sounding awful it could be that they’re hoping you remove her. Is it an LA school or an academy?

Original poster
Larrissaa · 11/01/2019 11:45

Thank you all, I will give the IPSEA a call. @KateGrey I agree with, I have a feeling they are hoping we take are away. It’s really sad to be a situation like this. I spoke with the headteacher today about self funding 1-1 she said it was not possible with school budget.

OP posts:
KateGrey · 11/01/2019 12:13

Self funding maybe a bit complicated for them but it doesn’t sound like they’re being overly supportive. In fact they’re breaking the law. Once she turns 5 they can’t refuse full time entry into school. Reduced timetables are only meant to be used for up to 8 weeks. Have you had any meetings with the senco? Your head sounds like ours and he was very nice on the surface but an utter nightmare. Is it an academy school? I think you really need to see the head and senco to hear how they plan to transition your dd to full time school. What county are you? I might know of some support services that could help you. It’s a horrible situation to be in. Our year was miserable. One of my children with additional needs did okay there before they became an academy.

RicStar · 11/01/2019 12:18

I don't think it is legal for the school to say 2 hours only. I would have a meeting and ask how they are going to provide full time education. It sounds like she is doing really well and I am surprised school have done so little to get her settled in full time.

Original poster
Larrissaa · 11/01/2019 12:31

I had a meeting with the head and senco today, she said they were yet to put in an ehcp application that they didn’t have enough evidence to support the application. Even though they initially told me the application was rejected.The senco said it’s a bit of a complicated, as she doesn’t really meet the criteria for ehcp application.I asked about the transition from part time to full time and they said they don’t know it depends on when the application goes through and when the funding is approved. I am currently in Staffordshire county.

OP posts:
Original poster
Larrissaa · 11/01/2019 12:33

They said she is sometimes distracted in class and doesn’t cooperate with circle time. I am currently doing part time home schooling with her that is why she has made progress. I will be going back to work soon

OP posts:
Ellie56 · 11/01/2019 12:42

The HT said "there was not enough evidence to support the ehcp application, yet your daughter can only go to school for 2 hours a day?
Hmm.

Quite frankly the HT is talking rubbish. A part time timetable amounts to illegal exclusion. Your daughter is entitled to full time education just like any other child.

www.ipsea.org.uk/pages/category/exclusion-from-school

You can apply for an EHCP needs assesssment yourself citing the fact she only goes to school for 2 hours a day and the school is not meeting her needs. You can apply yourself. Info here:

www.ipsea.org.uk/ehc-needs-assessments

KateGrey · 11/01/2019 13:01

You don’t need the school to back an ehcp assessment request. I’ve done both of ours. What are they proposing once she turns five? Also they should be providing you with a log of why she is being sent home after two hours stating why she is being excluded. Because they are illegal. Doesn’t sound like the head or senco are brilliant. And actually the first £6k should come from there Sen budget anyway. Ehcp’s are for when school can prove they’ve exhausted all options and now need additional funds. Does she have any support at all?

Original poster
Larrissaa · 11/01/2019 13:24

She does not have any support at the moment except the 2 hours per day . They are not proposing any increment in hours when she turns 5. The headteacher said she is new to the school and she has no clues about SN. She said she will discuss with a different head of another school who has more experience with SN. She said she will get back to me .

OP posts:
Original poster
Larrissaa · 11/01/2019 13:25

Thank you. I will do the application. I didn’t realise I could do this myself

OP posts:
KateGrey · 11/01/2019 13:35

Ipsea have some model letters on their website about applying. Is it an academy school? If not I’d be ringing the LA as what they’re doing is unlawful and illegal.

Original poster
Larrissaa · 11/01/2019 13:49

Thank you... if I apply for ehcp and it gets approved can I change my DD1 to a different. As I feel a fresh start may be beneficial to her or must she only attend the named school.

OP posts:
Original poster
Larrissaa · 11/01/2019 13:53

The school is an academy.

OP posts:
KateGrey · 11/01/2019 14:10

In my experience academies (not all I’m sure) aren’t great especially for Sen. Yes you can name whatever school you chose on the plan and county or the other school would have to find a very good reason to say no. Sorry you’re having such a terrible time. Our early years was awful (being locked in and out of classrooms, not allowed to start with all the other children to name a few). My advice follow up everything in writing especially disagreeing with the amount of time she is in school. Once she hits five legally you’ll have a stronger case. But they should have an integration plan in place as to how they plan to build her up. What reasonable adjustments are they making to allow her to access more time in school? Sadly what I’ve found is even with the law protecting you the schools especially academies seem to do what they like. Check their Sen policy and also if they have a part time attendance policy. I’d also speak to the LA to keep them informed as you’re not choosing to home school they’re forcing you to. I’d also consider a complaint to governors.

Original poster
Larrissaa · 11/01/2019 17:30

Thank you very much for all your advice.i will get the ehcp application in rolling.

OP posts:
Ellie56 · 11/01/2019 19:02

Just so you know, OP, a lot of LAs turn down the inital requests for EHC Needs assessments as matter of course, but then back down if parents appeal.

SouthWestmom · 11/01/2019 19:18

School can't say she can't go full time even if she isn't five. If they offer a place for reception it has to be equal for all - thats from the admission code from memory and would be discrimination otherwise.
Apply for an EHCP assessment yourself.

KateGrey · 11/01/2019 19:18

Happy to help if I can. We had our intitial appeal for one of our children turned down but go back and appeal the decision. They like to turn them down to start with as they don’t want to pay out.

SouthWestmom · 11/01/2019 19:20

2.16 Admission authorities must provide for the admission of all children in the September following their fourth birthday. The authority must make it clear in their arrangements that, where they have offered a child a place at a school:
a) that child is entitled to a full-time place in the September following their fourth birthday;
b) the child’s parents can defer the date their child is admitted to the school until later in the school year but not beyond the point at which they reach compulsory school age and not beyond the beginning of the final term of the school year for which it was made; and
c) where the parents wish, children may attend part-time until later in the school year but not beyond the point at which they reach compulsory school age.

grasspigeons · 11/01/2019 19:47

do get the ehcp needs assessment application rolling - but also remind the school that they don't have to have an ehcp to provide support to your child!

I appreciate they might struggle to fund a FT 1:1 but there is a lot they can do to support language development than a FT 1:1. The reception class room should be an ideal environment for this, with lots of visuals and things like communication fans so your daughter can at least hand a card with an image of what shee needs to the class TA (eg toilet). Speech and language therapist can come in weekly without an ehcp if the school buys into the service (you might be able to pay for your own to go in if you really do have funds)

I'm really cross on your behalf.