Preschool want to call SENCO in

[Haworthia]

Which actually didn’t come as a surprise, but I’m still feeling guilty and that I haven’t been pushing for enough support/assessment (I feel like I’ve been floundering in the system tbh). But let’s start from the beginning:

My son is now almost 3 and a half. I’ve been worried about his speech development since around 12-18m when he didn’t begin picking up words as his older sister did. Kept waiting and waiting. He flunked his two year check, not just in the speech category but any category that required speech.

Saw a community paed in March at 2y10m who had no major concerns re. autism (she asked lots of leading questions about sensory issues, etc) but said they wouldn’t discharge him, but instead wait and request a report from preschool when he eventually started. Had a hearing check and that was OK. Entered the speech therapy system which has been, frankly, really disappointing (I’m not sure what kind of help and support I was expecting, but I wasn’t expecting to see one overworked speech therapist once in July and nothing since).

So, to be honest I’ve been feeling a bit lost in the “system” in terms of which department I needed to chase and when. We sort of pootled along over the summer, waiting for him to start preschool this September at 3y4m. I was reluctant to send him any sooner because I just felt like he was too babyish (not just in speech but behaviour/socially also).

So he started and has pleasantly surprised me by loving it. My first child took months to settle, so this was great. He’s also had a real leap in his speech and social skills which has been lovely to see - starting to form sentences, sits for circle time, waits his turn - all things which he’s found difficult bordering on impossible in the past.

I won’t lie - I relaxed a bit because I felt he was starting to catch up. He’s still obviously behind his peers, I’d say he appears around a year behind.

And then preschool approached me to say they wanted to get their SENCO in to assess him. Although nothing they said came as a surprise I still feel pretty crushed. They estimated his speech to be in the 16-22m bracket (personally I’d say he’s slightly better than that) and commented on hitting, throwing toys, banging toys... behaviour you expect to see in a much younger child, basically.

I still feel terrible though, because maybe I just haven’t been fighting hard enough? Should I have been pushing for more speech therapy instead of going along with what I was told? Should I have pushed to see the paed again over the summer?

To make matters worse he’s due to start school next September which is unthinkable to me. He’s summer born but I’ve heard the school won’t entertain any requests to defer starting Reception, and shopping around different schools isn’t an option because a) we live on top of it, b) older child goes there and c) it’s a lovely school.

Please be gentle with me, the one other time I asked for child/parenting advice I got flamed to high heaven. I guess I’m looking for reassurance if it exists and what to expect from a SENCO assessment.

Relax!! I'm sure you are doing fine.

I've never heard of a Senco assessment - I would imagine they are asking for this to see if he needs to be referred to an Educational Psychologist who imho would be much more qualicied to do an assessment.

Could it be the local authority EYFS SENCO? We had this with DD at nursery and it was actually pretty useful. She just came and observed DD and then suggested some things to the nursery they could support DD with and some things we could do at home.

Given everything you've said I'd be pushing for a pediatrician referral. If you go to your GP and explain everything you've said here I would think you should get one. Otherwise SLT should be able to refer (though it sounds like yours are hard to see??)

I think if you can get an EHCP (which doesn't necessarily require a diagnosis of anything - just the need for extra support) then this gives you more options in relation to schools... I don't know much about them as we don't have one but I know there are organisations called SOS SEN and IPSEA that may be worth looking up, as they help parents apply/go through the process.

If you can find the name/number of your local authority EYFS SENCO on their website it could be worth giving them a ring to just talk through your situation. We found ours knew a lot about different schools so once she'd met DD she was a source of useful advice.

He sounds very similar to my son at that age. He was about a year behind developmentally with speech being more delayed. Just be prepared to fight for everything. Look into getting an EHCP in place for when he starts school even if Ed Psych says he doesn't need one. Look into things that you can do to support his development. Trust your instincts!

Could it be the local authority EYFS SENCO?

That must be it, LightTripper. And he has seen a paed, back in March, where there were no blaring red flags of autism etc. Since then I think we’ve fallen through the cracks. The paed said they’d request a report from preschool when he started, but bearing in mind that was six months away, I was dubious that any contact would be made and it would be down to me to chase. Which turned out to be spot on

Although I said there were no huge red flags for autism, there are a few. Echolalia is a big one. When asked a question he’s more likely to repeat it than answer it. When my mum talks to him on the phone, you can hear him muttering the last words of each sentence she says to him.

“Have you been playing in the garden?” (“playing in the garden”)
“Did you go to preschool today?” (“Preschool today”)

Up until recently, if you said to him “what’s your name?” he’d just say “name!” Literally within the last month he’s started answering that correctly. Ask him how old he is and he can’t answer that.

He actually has a great vocabulary for “things”. Knows all his letters and number, shapes, colours, animals. Ask him questions like “how many?” and he’ll count. There’s just something lacking - is it what they call expressive language?

Is EHCP what used to be known as a statement of SEN? I need to get to grips with the acronyms

Yes, it is!

DD was a bit like that. She used to reverse her pronouns a lot ("Do you want a drink?" instead of "I want a drink" etc.) She had a great vocabulary for nouns and could label almost anything you could point at in a book but rarely asked for anything.

The only real "red flag" with her really was complete lack of pointing. Everything else was quite subtle I think (other than physical, she was a very late walker - but this is to do with her hypermobility and maybe a bit sensory, so not purely an "autism" thing). Or seemed subtle to me anyway (but then she is very very like me, so this is probably why I missed so much of it ... turns out lots of things I thought were normal are not!)

I think if they don't have too many sensory issues so they are "nicely behaved" then it's easy to fly under the radar, even if they are quite far behind in other things. I feel quite lucky that we got picked up. Although DD isn't too badly affected so far and really enjoys school even without too many accommodations or a 1:1, she does get very anxious about things, and having a better understanding of what drives that helps us (and school) to minimise the strains we are putting on her (I hope!)

(but then she is very very like me, so this is probably why I missed so much of it ... turns out lots of things I thought were normal are not!)

Oh god, this is a big problem for me! Especially in relation to DD. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve reassured myself that X Y or Z is normal because I remember being like that as a child, only to stop for a minute and wonder how “normal” I was She shows lots of signs of inattentive ADHD... as do I. To be honest, I always score quite highly on autism checklists too.

Finally got through to the community paeds office.

They said:

“Have preschool received a questionnaire?” No they haven’t
“Ok, so we can send one to you and you can bring it to your next appointment” I haven’t got a next appointment
“Oh”

It turns out that they’ve recently changed their procedures and no one leaves without another appointment being booked for them. Apart from back in March, when we left with vague plans for an appointment in the distant future

So I now have an appointment for February 2019. I have no idea whether that’s a problem or not. Obviously it isn’t great, but in terms of things like EHCPs and the clock ticking for starting school, is it just far too late?

Hopefully others will be along with advice on the EHCP but I don't think it's a problem in the sense that EHCP is based on needs rather than diagnosis. Maybe ask Nursery about whether they've helped apply for an EHCP before? If so they may be able to advise. If not I've heard SOS SEN and IPSEA are good for advice on this too, or the NAS may be good (sometimes they have a local group).

If you know for sure what school he is going to then I think this is a big advantage because they should be able to put measures in place (even including 1:1 if necessary) without an EHCP. EHCP gives them the funding to do it however, so they should be keen to get one if your DS turns out to need that level of support. If he doesn't need 1:1 they may just do support from their normal SEN budget without an EHCP. Maybe speak to them too? They may have the incentive and the know-how to get you into the system in the right way to get everything set up for next September?

To be honest appointment in February sounds kind of standard. We got seen every 6 months pretty much from when DD was first in the system (aged about 2 I think?) to when she was diagnosed at 4. Then tend to be reluctant to diagnose much earlier than that anyway (certainly here) so don't worry that you've missed the boat.

On Speech Therapy, might it be worth going private if you think this is an issue? Our private SLT took a much broader interpretation of speech therapy than the NHS one did (who spent hours with us but didn't do much). I've also found some speech therapists on line quite good with ideas for games/activities (e.g. Walkie Talkie and Chirp on YouTube). There is also a good book with games/activities for kids on the spectrum that we got from the Library and found quite good when DD was your DS's age:
books.google.co.uk/books/about/101_Games_and_Activities_for_Children_Wi.html?id=3UFuv9-fVcQC&source=kp_cover&redir_esc=y
Might be worth a look?

I'd double check with the school and few others about deferral and see what they say. We deferred DS and he will start Reception next September at just turned 5 (he is summer born too). When we first looked into it everyone said that it rarely happened etc, but our LA had just changed the criteria for summer borns and in the end it went through smoothly. The school does need to agree to the deferral as part of the application, but you are not automatically given a place at the school for the following year (at least that is how it works in our area) and need to reapply for a school place. We have changed the school we want DS to attend and it hasn't been a problem.

You haven't missed the boat with regard to an EHCP for next year either. I'd talk to preschool about them supporting an application. We were in exactly the same position as you last year. Our application went in February this year (sent from preschool) and DS's EHCP was finalised at the beginning of August, so cutting it fine but still doable. We didn't have a diagnosis of ASD until May this year, so it doesn't need to be in place before hand.

Thanks, both of you. I’m not going to rule out deferral as completely hopeless, but anecdotally I’ve heard from parents who’ve tried in previous years and received a flat out no from all three schools local to me. I think it’s because they’re academies which means the school is their own admissions authority, and the local authority essentially has no say?

I’m sure preschool would support me in whatever I chose. I’ve known them for a long time and the manager used to be a neighbour, which helps

I must say, the thing I’m finding most difficult is the very concept that my boy might have SN. I think I’ve been in denial for a while, and a bit too inclined to believe people when they say “Just you wait! He’ll wake up one day talking in sentences!” You know what it’s like.

Hi OP - I'm currently applying to defer school for my 3yo, also summer born. He was premature but also has developmental delays. It could be that SENCO involvement may help make a case for deferral - it's definitely worth a try IMO.

Good luck

It doesn't make a difference if the school you are looking at is a community school or an academy in our area. You apply directly to the LA admissions team for the deferral and it is Council who agree (or not) to the request. If your application goes to panel then an academy has the choice of using their governing body to consider the request or the LA's panel. However, our LA changed the criteria for summer borns last year and they now have a permissive approach and look to agree to requests. As long as there is evidence specific to the child to support the application and the receiving headteacher has no concerns then the application will be granted by the co-ordinating admissions officer and a panel decision isn't required. It is definitely worth exploring. Our LA was known for refusing requests and I had lots of people telling me that they would never agree, but I went for it as I thought there was nothing to lose by asking (it was an academy school which supported our request).

I totally understand what you mean about being denial. I was too for such a long time. It wasn't until a specialist teacher bluntly told me she thought DS was autistic that it sank in. I was quite happy with my head stuck firmly in the sand. The best piece of advice I was given was to not try to do everything at once. I'd wait for the meeting with the EYFS SENCO and see what they say. In the meantime you can apply for a school place and look at a deferral (if you want to go down that route). Good luck.

He actually has a great vocabulary for “things”. Knows all his letters and number, shapes, colours, animals. Ask him questions like “how many?” and he’ll count. There’s just something lacking - is it what they call expressive language?
Expressive language, is all speech. What you describe suggets he is lacking "functional language" - so can learn nouns, can repeat words or phrases, can 'recite' (so counting for example), but can't yet take part in a conversation, where one person responds to what the previous person has said. (except possible 'learned responses' where it might be a phrase always used in a certain situation).

Is EHCP what used to be known as a statement of SEN?
Yes. Education Health Care Plan.

in terms of things like EHCPs and the clock ticking for starting school, is it just far too late?
No. Firstly, this isn't connected with a diagnosis. There are people with diagnosed conditions who don't need an EHCP and there are people who never have a diagnosis of anything who do get EHCPs. The EHCP should depend on his level of need, not whether he has a diagnosis of any particular condition.

I think it’s because they’re academies which means the school is their own admissions authority, and the local authority essentially has no say?
Yes, that is correct. The LA is the admissions authority for LA maintained schools and the individual school is the admission authority if they are an academy.

Hi OP

Just wanted to join and offer a handhold as I'm pretty much going through exactly the same thing as you, but my DS is almost turning three.

It's really, really hard. He is progressing but I just see such a cavernous gap between him and his peers.

We're not at the EHCP stage yet but I imagine we will be soon.

I'm very lucky in that his preschool are superb and have been very supportive. We have our first SALT appointment in December.

Although it sounds awful to say, in a way it is reassuring to hear there are others with the same struggles. Sometimes I find this all very isolating.

Hi there
Educational health care plans were formerly called a statement of special educational needs. It should be about what he needs not his disability or diagnosis either. Can he take part in a conversation or not? My son is a winter child so things are somehow different for us. He was born in November.

BackforGood - thanks for clarifying expressive vs functional language. My knowledge of linguistic lingo is basically zero, so I find it hard to properly describe where DS’s speech falls short.

inthewords - thanks for your kind words. It is hard and it is isolating.

April2020mom - he is more and more able to take part in conversations, but at the level of a child of 2-2.5 I’d estimate. There’s just something lacking, both in his ability to instigate a conversation, and the breadth of his language I suppose. So you can have a conversation with him as long as you keep it simple and ask the kind of questions he can answer. Anything too abstract seems to confuse him.

Just wanted to bump this thread to update.

So, DS saw the community paed in February and was put on the (long) waiting list for an autism assessment. Think it’s called the STAR or STARS assessment? Anyway, haven’t heard a thing since then but I can only assume he’s on the waiting list. A specialist HV was mentioned but only this week, some four months later, is she actually coming to visit him at preschool.

We successfully deferred his Reception start. The school were surprisingly amenable to it.

Around March time (aged 3.10) he started reading words out loud. At first I thought it was a series of educated guesses, but no, he’s reading. He will now walk around the supermarket reading things like “white bread”, “sweet apple” etc. Hyperlexia fits him to a T (and this makes a future autism diagnosis even more likely, I guess). His speech has improved massively. Echolalia has vanished.

The area SENCO also visited him again and, frustratingly, seemed to side with preschool who are a bit against school deferrals. The feedback was that he likes structure, dislikes free play (just like his sister), has made a couple of friends who will leave for school in July, his literacy and numeracy skills are exceptional... now I’m terrified we’ve made the wrong decision

Here’s the thing, he’s very “unready” for school in lots of ways still. He refuses to potty train (he was 4 last month ) and wouldn’t be able to manage toileting by himself by September even if he ditched nappies tomorrow. Socially he’s still “different”.

In my heart of hearts I know he’ll do better overall if he starts in 2020, but a part of me worries that if he is quite gifted in some areas, putting him in the year below might turn out to be a bad move.

I don’t even know if hyperlexia = gifted anyway. Considering he couldn’t even answer “what’s your name?” 8 months ago, I’m kind of surprised by the workings of his brain lately.

Personally I think you've done the right thing. He'll be more able on the social side when he does start. School should be able to differentiate things for him if he's ahead in some areas. A friend of mine has two DS. The older one is autistic and does well academically but not outstanding. The younger one seems to be NT but is really gifted in reading and writing, meaning he's doing his phonics with Year 2s now despite being in Reception. DD is a very good reader but doesn't seem bored at school as they can easily differentiate the reading for her and she is more in the pack with writing and numeracy.

I learned to read very young and the only downside was I found school boring/frustrating to start with, but (a) I was socially immature (even for a summer born) and would have struggled even more socially if taught with my reading age, and (b) I don't think schools really did differentiation then. If it's a good school they should be able to handle it. Even then by year 3 or 4 I was fine and found it interesting again as we moved on to more topic work etc.

Thanks for the reassurance A specialist HV came to visit DS at preschool today and I’m now feeling that delaying school is definitely right again. Funny how you forget their differences sometimes. Anyway, they were talking with the children at circle time about doctors and nurses - have you been to see one, why did you need to go, that kind of thing. He couldn’t really answer. Those kind of more complex/abstract questions, he does really struggle with. That made me realise how much he would struggle with the Reception curriculum if he was starting in September. I’m not even bothered that he can’t answer those kind of questions, particularly.

Still don’t know what comes next tbh. Floundering in the system as ever. The HV asked if there was another paed appointment lined up and I said no, he’s just on the waiting list for an assessment (she clarified it was the ADOS assessment, which is helpful!). She mentioned that the wait is LONG... perhaps insinuating that he won’t be seen this side of Christmas? Who knows. Meanwhile, I don’t know whether I need to chase anyone. Speech therapist? Always a challenge 🤷‍♀️

I would definitely try to at least find out when the ADOS is. We found generally if we phoned up we could get some feedback on where we were on the list. We never had been forgotten, but I always worried that we might have been (and I do know people who've fallen off waiting lists because e.g. there was an admin SNAFU when systems were changed, so I think it's sensible to just check in regularly to make sure they still know you are waiting). On one occasion we also got offered a cancellation because we happened to phone when one came up, so you never know...

Are there any parent support groups in your area? It can be worth e.g. searching Facebook to see if there is anything local. They can be a good source of information on what the process is and how long things take in your area. If you Google your Local Authority name and "Local Offer" the website that you get will also often have details of parent support groups as well as services etc.

I'd just keep making a nuisance of yourself ringing up regularly, to find out where you are on the list, and reminding them (if it's possible for you) that if anybody cancels you'll come at short notice.