Realistically what are the best options for an academically able 8 yr old who is completely unable to cope in a classroom?

[PutItAwayDear]

Is it really an acceptable option for the school to want a full time 1-1 to supervise him so he can sit in at a desk in a corridor for 50% of the school day? They claim it's his choice to be out of the class and that they're being led by him but I feel like this isn't really very... inclusive?

He has sensory processing issues (confirmed by OT sensory assessment) and is awaiting full assessment for ASD and ADHD. Can't cope in the classroom at all - leads to frequent violent meltdowns.

EHCP draft meeting yesterday and it's going to panel next week but I'm having sudden realisation that maybe he actually can't have his needs met in mainstream and that he might be better of in specialist school... everyone keeps telling me he should be in mainstream as he is so bright and able (ie scored 100% on one of his KS2 national tests) but what use is it being in mainstream if he's not able to cope with the actual classroom anyway?

There is one but it's in a neighbouring county - I've got a phone appointment to talk to them on Monday though anyway. It looks incredible and offers the national curriculum with a good range of GCSEs and A levels and specialises in exactly DS's main difficulties.

Hi
We were in the same position with our daughter diagnosed ASD no learning disabilities. She was in a mainstream but it went from 50% 1-1 to 100% isolation from everyone. We too were at the draft stage of the EHCP. It was so bad that I woke up one morning and said, that is it I am never taking her to that school again. Very extreme but we let it go on too long and I was worried for her mental health. She was in Y3 and it was Easter time. I de registered her that day. We then went to look at other mainstreams and decided that it would probably be the same issues again. Her issues were mainly emotional / anxiety/ meltdowns etc... She wasn't receiving an adequate education anyway as she was with a TT not a qualified teacher and between the meltdowns and being sent home every day she was doing literally no work anyway so decided to focus on her emotional wellbeing instead. To cut a long story short, we worked with the LA and acknowledged homeschooling wasn't ideal and we wanted her in an educational setting but it had to be right. They finished her EHCP and we finally found a specialist school an hour away from us. She has been there nearly a year and the change in her is so positive. She doesn't have learning difficulties, she is ever so slightly behind her peers but the classes are in abilities not ages. There are kids there that are very clever. They sent a remote controlled boat from britain to Ireland! they know our kids are interested in computers, sciene etc so really push that. You will find specialist schools vary greatly so you will need to look around. The one that is 5 mins away from us couldn't challenge her in the way this one does. They help the kids emotionally some kids go onto Mainstream secondary after if they feel they are ready. Have a look at the Witherslack Group and see if there is one in your area. Good luck, my daughter is 9 by the way x

Thank you all

Its so hard knowing what the right thing is. I don't think I can cope with taking him out of school, I know that sounds awful but I just don't think I can. I'm a single parent with practically no family support and fairly precarious mental health myself, I'm not sure I could handle no break from DS (he's lovely but pretty full on and you never get a chance to switch off from him).

DS also is making good academic progress which makes it harder to convince anyone there's a problem with him only being in school 50% of the time when he's meeting targets and more, but he's clearly unhappy and stressed and isn't being included in any meaningful sense of the word.

I dont even know how to go about trying to get him into a SS but I'm making it my goal to find out next week. He deserves better than he is getting at the moment.

De registering was a desperate measure my daughter all of a sudden started urinating on the carpet, stripping off naked, hiding under tables etc...this was due to extreme anxiety diagnosed by her ped. I had the option to work from home. I understand it isn't possible for most people. We had left it too late and should have done what you are doing and looked at the options before it got as bad as it did. Home schooling was very hard, it certainly isn't an easy option. My daughter saw it as a 7 month holiday, I was very frazzled at the end. I doubt I would have coped as a single parent and completely understand what you are saying. My daughter was sick of the sight of me too!
Focus on your childs mental state as well as academic when it comes to approaching specialist schools, Special needs schools aren't just for kids with learning disabilities, it took a while for that to sink in with me. A lot of ASD kids have sensory difficulties (my daughter) these can have a profound effect on their mental wellbeing. Specialist schools adapt everything down to lighting, noise, smell, small classrooms etc... that is all your son may need for him to feel safe and learn happily. As I said before, it doesn't mean he couldn't progress onto mainstream if he is ready emotionally. They also help your child regulate their meltdowns.
We used Parents in Partnership, they work with the LA but are independent. They come to all your meetings with you at school, know the rules and procedures they should follow and were a god send for me as I often felt emotional in meetings with the head and would forget certain points. Mine was like a bull dog with my daughters head, she helped us all the way through until we finally got the school we wanted. Visit all the schools you can to get a feel. Also if you do go for a specialist school, I think you get transport. We do anyway. A taxi comes in the morning with her chaperone. Always the same driver and same chaperone. They all get on great :) good luck and keep fighting xx

We have very little near us. Our home LA has suitable sounding SS 40 odd miles away but nothing closer (just one for children with severe learning difficulties which is deffo not suitable for DS). The school I'm hoping to visit is in a neighbouring county (where DS is already at school in our nearest town which is 3 miles from home). We are on a border which makes things very difficult logistically as everything in our home county is miles and miles away but we struggle to access the services and support available just down the road as we don't technically live in the right area.

I've no idea about SMEH units, it's not something that's ever been suggested! Going to look for the closest one now.

We are in exactly the same position. Exactly the same. Ds 7 is gifted, also got full marks on some of his SATS last year in year 2 despite spending most of the year in isolation or on a reduced timetable. He should be in mainstream, if mainstream was more ASD friendly. And not just in the 'using strategies' way but in terms of less people in a class, less noise, less sensory overload but with a solid mainstream curriculum to stretch and engage etc. There no schools in my county that offer that. The only special schools around are mixed bag type that will take all sorts of children who don't fit in anywhere else because the provision is so poor. One of ds's triggers is being but with the other children who have SN because theirs needs are quite different and he struggles with that. We can't homeschool either. Just couldn't cope.

DS is very able academically but cannot cope in a mainstream environment.
He now attends an SEMH school and is so much happier. Yes he may not get the level of education he is capable of but his mental health has to come first. He can get more qualifications at any point in his life but if he is destroyed mentally by being forced into system he doesn't fit in that damage will be irreparable.

he may not get the level of education he is capable of but his mental health has to come first. He can get more qualifications at any point in his life

Same here with DD at SS. However I think this is totally unfair that DC cannot get the right provisions and the right level of education they are capable of and one have to choose between one or the other. This is a travesty of the law. Because this is what education and school age is for. Equality and SEN provision in principle are supposed to enable to have the needs met and achieve the educational outcomes on the par with non disabled children, in line with potential. All this thing about later in life puts DC at a disadvantage financially (have to pay fees, missed income) and educationally - they will need the right provisions for education at any age, but the provisions are only available in SS until 16. It would actually take an heroic struggle to achieve all the qualifications later, although heroic struggle is the everyday normal of families with SEN, so we don't question it.

I explored units but couldn't understand what they are good for in addition to mainstream and concluded that nothing at all. If DC can cope with mainstream and do well, then the unit provides less transparency and accountability of provisions and no advantage that I could see. If DC cannot cope with mainstream, the unit is neither here no there, but used by the LA as a way to prevent accessing SS.

For ASD units should be reformed to provide an academic ASD class in mainstream - a small ASD only class in mainstream with accelerated progress, adapted mainstream curriculum, specialist teaching methods and all the right provisions with good mainstream outcomes at the end, grades 4-9 in a good range of GCSEs.
There should also be "academic" SS provisions for DC with ASD, where they would access in small groups with specialist teaching and all the right provisions (emotional needs, life skills) the mainstream curriculum of 6-7 GCSEs targeted at achieving grades 4-9. The teaching should be specialist and accelerated to catch up the gaps from prom primary school due to lack of provisions before EHCP.

I totally agree with you cakes, it's wrong we have to sacrifice something but his mental health comes first every time.
The lack of provision is a disgrace.

A massive issue we are facing though is that our LA insist DS is not failing in mainstream because on paper he is doing well academically. Test results are always really good (he does almost no work day to day though and refuses point blank to write anything ever). His mental health is seemingly not a concern to them at all

I mean he has daily aggressive meltdowns, threatens staff and children, has no friends, rarely is able to go outside to play, works at a desk in a corridor most of the time, has been on a reduced timetable for 5 months and counting, can't go swimming because he can't dress himself in the communal changing rooms.... the list goes on. But he's not failing apparently?

Put my DS is super bright, well above average in maths but we got him I specialist provision. They argued he was too clever and needed mainstream, in all honesty mainstream would have killed him so we fought for his emotional well being. Go to the very top. We got our MP involved and the head of children's services. I was not willing for my boy to become another suicide statistic.

I mean he has daily aggressive meltdowns, threatens staff and children, has no friends, rarely is able to go outside to play, works at a desk in a corridor most of the time, has been on a reduced timetable for 5 months and counting, can't go swimming because he can't dress himself in the communal changing rooms.... the list goes on.

Put, this does sound like the school cannot meet your DS needs. Have they documented all these problems in the assessment reports and did they recommend provisions which you believe are effective?Meeting needs is not only about academic progress and even that should be compared with the cohort and with your DS earlier rate of progress. If your DS cannot write, cannot access many lessons, clearly he is not accessing mainstream education as it is provided to others. Sitting in the corridor is demeaning, humiliating. Just this alone is evidence they can't meet his needs.

I have successful experience of mainstream with my elder DS. It can work. But it was nothing at all like what you describe. My DS totally could cope and was accessing all opportunities successfully, be it with 1:1 and EHCP.

What you describe is appalling. Have you found a setting that could suit your DS? The EHCP needs to provide much more specialised input for his SEMH needs and support him to access that mainstream curriculum, or accept that he cannot cope in mainstream. Violence is a symptom of unmet needs, he should not be in that state, and should be able to cope with brakes, and form friendships and access all the lessons and experiences. He needs to write to pass exams and function in life in an occupation commensurate with his intelligence. Ultimately it clearly does not sound like he is accessing real mainstream education and that it is meeting all of his various needs.

We were in the same position. Ta kept him safe and entertained and, importantly, enabled us to compile evidence, continually, to get him into an out of county placement in year 5.

I think the problem with units is that fudge, which obscures the issues.

The fudge it that the unit neither delivers the mainstream experience and outcomes, nor fully meets the more complex needs. In those 'reintegration' units DC just cascade downhill in terms of outcomes, often at the expense of MH.
The point of this thread is to have good educational outcomes for bright DC with ASC who can't cope with mainstream. This need is not met currently, there is a huge gap in the market.

DC who get good GCSE results in units probably would get those results with right provisions without a unit, in mainstream alone. All those small groups and 1:1 additional interventions for part of the lessons could be done in MS without a unit, as it was the case for my DS. 5 of the 6 paragraphs in Where's last post are done in MS without a unit.

Children with ASD struggle with transitions, so that business of "some of the week" and "bad days / good days" creates a problem of their own. The provision should enable DC to access mainstream everyday, everyday should be a good day. What good is that DC attend half of history lessons? When are they going to learn history properly? What GCSE results are they going to get? It's almost like some sort of a game, playing 'going to mainstream'. Isn't it better to let them learn full GCSEs on fewer subjects properly with the right provisions?

The 'reintegration' model just doesn't work

hydrotherapy, rebound therapy, therapeutic story writing etc This sounds very specialist to me, very few ASD special schools would do that. Good for your DS.

The many units I visited had nothing of value on offer apart from a separate room, but the non-unit MS also had separate rooms for DS with EHCPs so even that was not an additional provision.

Put and Where, the situations you describe is quite extreme and sounds like a real specialist provision is required, or for Where, delivered in the unit. Possibly because DC accumulated a snowball of issues and reached a crisis due to delays in provisions in primary. What you describe is a provision that is insufficient to meet the needs but is also far beyond mainstream experience, so it sounds to me as the worst of both worlds. I am sorry I don't mean to upset you. I am upset myself about my DD.

It would be better, more cost effective and meet the needs of far more children with ASC to reform the units to be basically a full time small class for ASD only with specialist teaching and curriculum adaptations (like emotional wellbeing and therapeutic story writing) within a MS facilities which aims to accelerate those children's progress to grades 4-9 while broadly delivering the experience and facilities of a MS school.

The problem is that there are hardly any provisions that deliver good outcomes for ASD children without intellectual disabilities. My DD does not just need therapies, she needs good GCSEs and A levels.

"The problem is that there are hardly any provisions that deliver good outcomes for ASD children without intellectual disabilities. My DD does not just need therapies, she needs good GCSEs and A levels."

YES

The latest as of yesterday is that our LA are telling me that the only SS place available in county is at an "alternative provision" about 10 miles away. The website is... uninspiring. Says teachers expect students to "settle down quickly ready to learn" at the start of every lesson. The "information for parents" clicky tells me about the school timetable and the uniform and the last OFSTED report. That's it. They don't appear to offer a good academic education AT ALL. It's not even remotely a therapeutic environment, that much is clear from the website - if they were proud of what they could offer to children they'd be making a much bigger deal of it! It's aimed at children without SN from what I can see, and offers a sort of boot camp style environment. It would be disastrous for DS but I don't know how to prove this to people who don't want to hear it!

Sorry , I realise I referred to Shiny's post as being from Where. Sorry to you both.

My DS spent year 4 being taught in a corridor by a TA, left him very isolated but he did come through it and manage y5 and y6 well in mainstream in the classroom with very little support and got good SATS 118,115, 108. However, has just started secondary in a different area and its like we have regressed to y4 again and school keep illegally sending him home.

Its so annoying how there is no specialist provision for bright ASD - you are stuck between watching them struggle in mainstream or choosing a very poor education in specialist. I wouldn't mind home educating but my DH is dead against me doing that and I don't know how easy it would be to get it to work. If school are illegally excluding say no to collecting them and report it to your local council's exclusions team - that normally stops it. It can then force official exclusions but that at least puts the children on the radar for help rather than a hidden problem shoved back to parents.