Some SALT advice please

[anniebear]

DD was assesed my ED Psyc, she said the report back from the salt at sn school was that DD had progressed by 1 month in the last 13 months

which I find hard to belive

She meant in her understanding , as DD can talk

Salt said that her understanding was at a 1/2 word level

what does she actually mean ?

The Ed Psyc said that she had asked DD to put "the car under the bridge" and that she couldn't do it

(But I know she could easily do that)

Thank you

What asessments were used?

When we talk of comprehension at a 1 word level,it means that the child would understand the main information carrying word (ICW
So in a sentence like 'Bring me the car please' althoguh it is a five word sentence,the only word that really needs to be understood is car,especially if you were using appropriate intonatino and hand your hand outstretched.

Something like

'Put the car under the bridge' has three ICWs

'car' (as opposed to train or boat)

'under' (as opposed to on top of or besides,say)

'bridge' as opposed to box,tree or chair

Generally these sort of assessments involve a lot of different objects that are manipulated by a child according to directions and in a way that doesn't just allow them to rely on the contextual clues I outline in my 1 ICW example.

It's probably the Derbyshire language scheme Rapid screening test.

Ask her to expalin it to you further.

Thank you

I am not sure what she used

I won't be seeing the Ed Psyc again, but will be having a meeting with the SALT as I can't see how my DD has just progressed by 1 month in 13 months

Im gutted

Thanks again

I am quite sure if I said to DD

"can you clean the floor under the table please" she would know what I meant and do it

which is why I am a little confused at the 1/2 word level

Sorry only time to reply quickly- when you say "can you clean the floor under the table" it's prob in contect, you're standing in front of the table pointing to the floor and you're asking her something you ask quite regularly.

DS1's understanding in those situaiton is quite good- I can talk at normal speed. I can also (just) now say things like "go upstairs to the bathroom and get your shoes" or even "go upstairs to the bathroom and get your crocs", and chances are he'd get it right, but he would really, really struggle with "put the car under the bridge". "give me the car" "give me the bridge" he would get, but "put the car under the bridge"..... I'm sure he would be stumped. He's also at a 1/2 word level I think. (1 solid, 2 sometimes)

Annie,yes,Gess is absolutely right.
I would never ever tell a parent that there child had only progressed 'one month'.For God's sake how is that supposed to help someone who is having a rough time anyway???

In fact,most of the time,I keep age appropriate scores from standardised test to myself as I know they only give a partial picture.

Really sorry that you have been upset like this. I think it is a completely inappropriate and useless piece of information to hand onto a parent.

I think the under/on concepts can be tricky ones to understand too. It took a very long time for ds2 to get the hang of those. Our SALT tests the word level using very simple concepts like "Give teddy cup" or "Give dolly the plate." "Car under the bridge" sounds like a much harder instruction to understand IMHO.

Yes on and under are hard to understand. There are some good cards you can get to help teach it. Derbyshire Langauge Scheme I think??? Moondog will know-- I notice she's mentioned it below. Pictures of dogs etc under tables and buses! We also had a session with ds2 where we photographed him on and under in front/behind things. He loves being involved and ds1 was more interested in the photos of him that the line drawings of the Derbyshire thingy

Finding this thread very interesting, as a lot of this is relevant to S. I was told that DS comprehension level was 18 months, but that was because I asked point blank - SALT said that she didn't like to give the age figures to parents, and certainly wouldn't volunteer them.

sorry for hijacking annie, and many sympathies for finding these sort of appointments stressful.

replied before don't know where my post is lol

I gave DD a cloth before and said to her and said "can you please clean the floor under the table with the cloth"

she did it straight away

(I didn't point, no gestures, and I have never asked her to clean thr floor before!! but now that I know she can.........!!! lol)

In the bathroom I handed her an empty toilet roll and a piece of jigsaw (for the bath) and said "can you please put the toilet roll in the bin and then put the jigsaw into the bath"

I even thought she would struggle as it was 2 different things....but she did it straight away

I could see she was thinking about it and looking at the 2 objects when I said it, but she did it

surely thats more than 1 or 2 ICWs?

It was actually the Ed Psyc who told me what the SALT had said

The Head wants me to meet with her and the Salt so we can discuss it.

Thaks for al you help and replies

and sorry for waffling

mummytosteven , no aplogies needed

It may be that she understand what you expect annie- ds1 always "performs" far better with me, than with anyone else. I just assume that assessments are never remotely accurate of his ability in real life iyswim. I'm reading a book at the moment about autistic/severely learning disabled children and one has mentioned that he could always understand his mother, but would struggle to understand others until his mother translated.

Annie,you have grasped the concept really well which menas that you can start thinking about where breakdown occurs.(Some people never get the idea of ICWs no matter how many times I explain.)

In the examples you give,I suspect it is a 2ICW command as the 'in' bit is redundant really.Also consider that a toilet roll does go into the bin anyway so if yuo said this first and then your dd was left holding a piece of jigsaw,then all that had to then be understood was 'bath' and she would put it there.

Do you see?

Not trying to put a downer on you at all,just wanting to show you that

a.) It's really difficult to work out exactly where language breaks down as we rarely use it without contextual clues anyway

b.) Children with specail needs are incredibly clever at covering up their language comprehension difficulties.The strategies they have to do so never fail to amaze me on a daily basis.The challenge is to direct that crafty strategic thinking inot other areas.

Some adult language assessments (and to a lesser extent paediatric ones)look at assessing comprehension with no contextual clues.

Stuff like the Token Test which is full of commands like 'Put the red circle under the green triangle and next to the blue square.'
Testees however are usually stroke patients who are in general extremely motivated and cooperative.
These sorts of tests would be indescribably boring to a small child and understandably,most wouldn't cooperate which is where the Derbyshire Language Scheme came in.

Like Gess says,there are millions of flash cards at various ICW levels that you can work on (ask SALT) but agree that terribly boring.Her suggestion is one we also use (dead easy in days of digital cameras)

Agree with moondog at cleverness at covering up. I was really shocked when I finally grasped the language level that ds1 was operating at. I was also incredibly impressed at just how well he coped in every day life with this utterly appalling language deficit. It made me realise how genius he was iyswim.

Thank you both so much

I just felt like she had thrown a brick right at me yesterday

Had a terrible day. Ed Pysc said pretty much a lot of what I expected , but then there was nothing much was really positive

(saying that she did go and observe Ellie at mainsream last thing on a friday afternoon!)

Feel like I have got back years and have just be told all over again that she is going to be severly brain damaged

which I know she isnt but feels like it at the mo, I'm back to crying everytime I think of it

I feel a bit better after speaking to mainstream, some of the things she said that Ellie didn't do, the Teacher shook her head and said she does do those things regulary

Lol Moondag I did think that about the toilet rol and the jigsaw

So guess what I will be making today.....a bridge and am off to find a little car!!!!!!

sorry for waffling, have been keeping it all in!!

Thanks again

Was thinking about you today Annie.
Sorry you feel like this.
There is always something positive to say about every child at every stage of development. Your little girl will keep on developing and learning.It never stops,i promise you.

Do the Derbyshire activities but use objects that are of interest to her.
If cars and bridges aren't her thing,then forget it.

thanks so much

I did the car and bridge today lol, my friend brought one round!!!!!

she did it!! Although she did kind of push it threw rather that leaving it right under (was a skinny bridge lol)

But then I rather think her twin might do that as well, and my friend said that If I had asked her to put the car under the bridge she would have pushed it through !!!!

My head is a bit clearer today and I am a bit annoyed. If my DD who is progressing so much has only progressed 4 weeks with her understanding in 13 months (which you may as well say she hasnt progressed at all)......

why hasnt the SALT/school mentioned this and straight away I would have asked , right, tell me what I can do please

which I will still do. I will now ask her to give me some things to do

Don't think she has even spoken to me i the last 13months apart from an hello now and again!!

But I had to hear from the Ed Pysc
Thanks again, when I asked for a bit of advice I wasn't expecting this much. I do really appreciate it

sorry for waffling again and thanks so much