Anyone's ASD ds wildly provocative?

[amunt]

Ds (7) goes wild almost manic when trying to goad and provoke anyone who tries to 'control' him, i.e threaten him with consequences. He is merciless and clearly loves it - I know when he is anxious and it is not anxiety. The obvious conclusion is don't try to control him - unfortunately only me and his aba tutor fully grasp that. But I am interested to know if anyone has a similar experience? None of my friends' children on the spectrum show similar behaviour.

Thanks

Have you looked into PDA? There's info on this on the national autistic society website as well as individualized PDA websites.

Yes I agree it sounds similar to my DS who is autistic with a PDA profile.

I so wonder tho whether your DS is actually enjoying it?
My DS goes very manic / wild and often has a sort of manic rictus grin on his face (so that school tell me 'he was obviously enjoying taunting x,y or x').
But it's definitely not the same as a true look of happiness.
It really is another variant of anxiety because he's desperately trying to claw back control due to his extreme need not to let anyone tell him not to do due to the way it makes him feel inside.

It's terribly complicated to unravel though and needs a real understanding of DS, how he feels inside versus what he looks like on the outside.

He describes it himself as 'cracking up' (he's heard the expression somewhere I think) which he thinks means 'laughing without actually feeling happy'.

Manic really is the only way I can describe it too.

I have also struggled to find many other autistic children who really truly show this behaviour, and few people who understand it for what it really is.

FWIW DS has also recently been diagnosed with ADHD which does go some way to explaining how he behaves sometimes too - he can't retain instructions at all really, and goes through hyper moments during the day which he describes himself as 'feeling like a sugar rush even tho I haven't had any sugar'

(He's getting really good at explaining how he feels recently . I feel that in itself is a breakthrough. He's 9 BTW).

Thanks everyone. I've always assumed a PDA aspect to his autism, but it is the degree of retribution he exacts that seems unusual - the taunting goes on indefinitely, long after (weeks after) the person has tried to rectify.

Marshmallow09er, I think ADHD is probably a factor here too. Great that your Ds can articulate how he feels.

If there is a strong motivator, which emerge from time to time, he can go weeks, even months, with very little demand avoidance - maybe not surprising as it's his decision. When he is particularly oppositional/ demand avoidant I actually find it useful to treat the behaviour like stim: the more attention you draw to it the worse it gets and the only way to improve is by drawing attention to the positive stuff.

In general I haven't found much of the PDA guidance that useful. But would love to hear any success stories.

Thanks everyone. I've always assumed a PDA aspect to his autism, but it is the degree of retribution he exacts that seems unusual - the taunting goes on indefinitely, long after (weeks after) the person has tried to rectify.

Yes - this is exactly how my DS can be.
We call it 'focusing in' - he becomes fixated on getting 'payback' for some kind of wrong he feels has happened to him, and he can then 'focus in' on that person for weeks.

It's very challenging and tiring to try and manage.

Keeping him in a calm, just right state helps because he's less likely to become angry / upset over things which in turn means he's less like to seek 'payback' (that's what he calls him) from someone.

But keeping him in that magical just right state is very very tricky.
When he's calm he's a kind, delightful boy - but it's such a delicate seesaw keeping him like that.

Really I have to be his 'buffer' most of the time he's with me - school remains difficult even with full time 1:1 and an EHCP.

TBH there are definitely personality types that work well with DS (laid back, funny and easy going types) and then there are ones that he constantly butts up against.

School (and I suppose later, work) forces you to socialise with people that you aren't naturally aligned with.
My hope is as he gets older he'll start to gather his 'tribe' of people who get and understand him.

But equally he will also encounter those who don't and I do hope we can help him develop coping strategies to deal with that (rather than the maladaptive 'you've annoyed me so I'm going to hurt and annoy you' ones he uses now).

So interesting Marshmallow09er because similar is so many ways. Very tiring, I'm the buffer but can't always be there, can be very calm, funny and sweet.

Likewise Ds struggles at school even with EHCP and 1:1. The frustrating thing school wise is that most of the time it is haphazard apart from one day a week when his ABA tutor goes in. She is just so attuned and can provide the right motivation to keep that "magical state" (good term btw) all day - the only time he manages a whole day at school. And he just loves the success of the day, comes out beaming. The terrible irony is that I have to pay for that day because HT colluded with LA at Tribunal against us and now all staff love that day because there is no disruption from Ds. And I can only afford to fund 1 day a week myself. Evidence is piling up though for next AR.

Yes keep the evidence logged.

DS always has better days with his SLT who goes in as part of his EHCP because she's so experienced with children like DS - however it's possibly the 'novelty' factor plays a part too - if she was there everyday would fatigue set in and he'd start refusing to do learning for her too? It's so hard to know.

I constantly debate whether a specialist setting would be better for DS, but I honestly think it's not the setting, it's not even the strategies used - it's the person he's with. They either click or they don't.

You have to be so endlessly positive, forgiving, flexible, inventive, intuitive, humorous, kind and diplomatic to successfully motivate and manage DS.

Even I, who love him with all my heart, have days when doing all of the above feels hard.

Totally agree about the setting not being the issue, but who he's with. Although not sure if school will put up with the disruption indefinitely - there again what can they do? they argued in court that he needed no support whatsoever, so a bit tricky to chuck him out now.

Yes, some days are really hard, especially if you have unthinkingly slipped into a taking it personally mind set - a downward spiral that's hard to escape from.