Does anyone know where I can information on how much it costs to fund a child with SN in mainstream

[Saker]

The LEA are trying to close down the two remaining assessment units in our county, one of which Ds2 attends. I am preparing for battle at so-called parent consultation meeting tomorrow. It would be useful for me to be able to compare costs of running the unit with putting all 10 children into mainstream but don't have any figures - does anyone know where I can get them?

Can tell you (from Davros- she is the expert in this) that the figures they give for special schools are incorrect as they forget to include cost of buildings etc- but include that in more expensive specialist provision.

I think from figures I've seen that the quoted figure for ms with full time 1:1 is about 2k less than special.

I think you need to talk about why ms provision is not appropriate. LEAs have a legal duty to provide an appropriate educaiton (not the best- just appropriate). If you can show that ms is not appropriate then theoretically you are onto a winner.

My current research project is showing the advantages on the environment of special schools (wrt to severe autism- but will apply for other communication problemss as well) - and how those factors cannot be recreated in mainstream. Unfortunately its nowhere near written yet or I'd send you a copy.

sorry first sentence doesnt make sense- I mean if you are asking for your child to go to an expensive private specialist provision the comparison makes local authority special schools look cheaper than they are. Think you're onto a loser there though as mainstream is cheaper (hence inclusion).Unless you can add in cost of exclusion/failed inclusion in lifetime care terms- which will be impossible.

Thanks Gess.

Yes I totally agree that it would be completely inappropriate for most of the children in the unit to go into mainstream at this point - that is why they are in the unit in the first place. I will emphasise that but trying to cover all angles. A child like Ds2 would need maximum support in mainstream and I want to try and work out the cost of that compared to his cost in the unit which is quite a bit cheaper than special school I think. The LEA have produced such a half baked report recommending closure without a single fact or figure in it - it is unbelievably bad - just full of statements supposedly made by people they interviewed (including teachers at the unit who they interviewed without the teachers being aware that they were considering closure ).

I am watching this thread with interest. Our LEA have decided to close a specialist communication unit and We await the official reasons as to why. No one involved directly with the unit supports this and the parents have never been consulted. What it means for DS, I have no idea. I do not feel mainstream with support is a feasible option. Spitting.......... so lots of sympathy!

Thanks that's really helpful.

Shey - I think they should have a parent consultation process - I'm not sure if it's a legal requirement. You can request reports, minutes of meetings etc under freedom of information act and they should send them in 20 days. Phone up and badger for reasons, explanations of timelines and what's going to happen to the children.

So sorry for you, it's very worrying. In our case Ds2 probably will have left the unit before it closes so I am less concerned personally but I owe it to the teachers and the other kids to campaign. Also I want to make it as difficult as possible for them to do so they think twice next time.

our new headteacher did manage to prevent the local authority closing his previous special school; so it can be done! Very good news that their report is half baked and crap. Is there a higher authority that can be appealed to in these cases?

Apart from the local government ombudsman who doesn't really have any power to do anything, I am not aware of any higher authority. The trouble is given that the report is so crap, and they still have "strongly recommended" closure on the basis of it, it is probably all a formality. Meeting tonight - see what happens but my hopes aren't high - our arguments as to why they shouldn't close are good and entirely reasonable but I don't think the LEA responds to reason.

I think threatening the local govt ombudsman can help though- I threatened our LEA before with that- and it did work (they very quickly sorted out stuff I had been asking them to sort out for months- I mean within hours).

Agree that local paper, MP's etc. How concenred are the staff? Our head said that he worked hard with the LA but was able to get them to change thier minds.

I suppose press home on them that they have a legal duty to provide an adequate education, and how are they going to do that without the unit. Will they be quantifying hours of SALT in every child's statement (and if not why not- that's been to the appeal court and legally should be in there). Have you had a chance to talk to IPSEA?

oh and by quantifying hours in the statements I mean in parts 2 and 3. If the PCT can't provide SALTS, how will the LEA pay for them given that they'll have to provide them if they're in 2 + 3 of the statement (as they should be).

There's quite a bit about the legal side of SALT on the IPSEA website- print it off, highlight it and leave them copies tonight. My LEA ended up having to pay a private SALT to visit ds1 regularly in mainstream because the PCT couldn't provide one (thats where I threatened the ombudsman).

Thanks for the suggestions. The teachers are very against the units closing and very upset at the way they have been treated. The head of the other unit that Ds2 doesn't attend was actually suspended for telling the parents that the LEA were considering closure when he first found out . The teachers were forbidden to discuss it with us and to give us information like when meetings were planned - they were trying to keep it hushed up prior to the local elections I suspect. Basically the whole thing stinks.

I have been trying to phone IPSEA for the last 3 weeks but it is always engaged or on answerphone even when it is in the supposed opening hours.

An article appeared in the local press yesterday - we were advised not to contact the press at first to give the LEA a chance to back down and negotiate but someone must have had enough and gone ahead.

Local MP supposedly supportive but doing bugger all as far as I can see. Have written to all and sundry to get practically duplicate letters back saying I will have the chance to express my views in the parent consultation period.

Anyway I want to see what happens at the meeting tonight then I am entitled to a 1:1 meeting to discuss the future for my child so might request that and give them a hard time. Considering contacting You and Yours on Radio 4 or something similar as the LEA have been so dodgy with the whole thing that they might be interested and SN education is a relatively hot topic at the moment with Gordon Brown and David Cameron more in the limelight.

The ironic thing is that the same LEA has just opened two secondary school units for children with Aspergers which sound really good.

That's the problem with IPSEA- getting through.

Local councillors are often more use than MP's although I suppose some are going to want to be saving money. Worth contacting though.

the case law section in IPSEA is really helpful though- I've found that printing variuos cases off and showing the LEA bods really helps. If stuff has been to the court of appeal they can't argue with it.

Well I feel a little more (cautiously) optimistic having been to the meeting. The Deputy Chief Executive of Children's Services was there who hasn't really been involved before and he seems a bit more reasonable, although I know it's difficult to tell. He admitted the report wasn't good and that the whole process had been mishandled and that he would need much better reasons to close the units. Very vague on how they would replace them though. We will see.

ah- is their an opportunity to follow up with a letter to him now setting out your concerns - I know you say your ds is likely to have moved on- but I think it would be valid to ask how they would propose to meet his needs without a unit.

yes I will write to them all again to ram the point home. Other slightly hopeful thing is that the lead councillor on the committee has changed which may mean we have someone with a different opinion and also should make it easier for them to back down.

Thanks for your support.