Very concerned, worried Aunty

[Kezh55]

Hello everyone. Sorry for the long post but I really need help!

I’ve joined Mumsnet specifically for help with my nephew that is almost tearing our family apart. He is 8 years old and can be a loving, sweet, charming little boy. I have a lot to do with my family and my nephew and we’re all close. I often take him on holiday with my immediate family as I have a son also aged 8.
My nephew has been diagnosed as mild autism and Asperger but he isn’t bad enough to be statemented. Him Mum finds it hard to be proactive in chasing support that he should have which leaves all the family all taking different approaches with what each individual thinks is best. The poor lad is sometimes pulled all over the place and doesn’t have a lot of consistency. The issue I struggle with is what elements of his behaviour are due to ASD or his personality and behaviour. It’s probably easier to give a few examples.

After bath tonight my son went down stairs and my nephew replied ‘yes, go downstairs you scum’. I have no idea how he knows this sort of language.
I had them both at the park and when I said last go at hide and seek he was happy. As I said ok time to go he cried loudly and wouldn’t come with me. I walked away and stopped a few times to see if he would join me but he carried on crying and watching me to see if I would come back for him.

He rarely says please or thank you which I insist on but my mother and his mum say I shouldn’t pick him up on the little things as this is his Aspergers coming out.

He used the ASD as a tool and says- don’t make me angry, you are making me angry now and it’s because of my condition. This usually happens if he gets a No about something he wants to do.

I suppose what I’m asking is should I be making him say please and thanks you and expect the same behaviour of him as I do my own son- like not throwing litter, putting plates in the kitchen when finished. Dressing himself and tying laces. My nephew also speaks to people, well...... like shit if I’m honest especially to his grandparents. Is this ASD and aspergers? Am I doing wrong to pick him up and tell him his behaviour isn’t acceptable??? It’s very hard and does cause tension in the family. I want to help him be happy and just be a kid and enjoy things but part of my instinct tells me he’s just not a nice kid which is awful to think of a little boy.

Please help educate me- what can I do! Xxx

He has a condition that makes social situations difficult so I think you need to cut him a lot of slack while kindly teaching him acceptable behaviours. He has a disability which makes it more difficult for him and you need to bear this in mind when dealing with him.

I think with some of the things you mention you sound overly shocked - like him using the curse word. Many 8 year old boys will use these words from time to time as they start hearing them in school etc but we just need to teach them about why it is inappropriate to use them in many situations.

Also, your DN is an just an 8 year old and many children that age will not have perfect behaviour so don't ecpect that from him - its not really fair.

I have an 8 year old with autism and he behaves badly when he is stressed or overloaded. We deal with this very effectively not by being very strict with him - but by helping him to recognise when he is begining to get stressed so he can take a break and reset his stress levels to normal levels. When he is calm I will have a relaxed chat to him about any behaviour that was inappropriate and explain why it was inappropriate and how he might approach things next time.

I know what you said about the boys mother but how does she want everyone to deal with him?

Everything AddictiveCereal said.

Your post is reading like it belongs on aibu and I think you should think about the tone of your posts when posting over here.

Thing like tying laces and getting dressed will probably take longer for him to learn that the average child, as for his social and emotional development you should probably think of him as about on level with a 3 or 4 year old.

Hi. Thanks for the post. His Mum is a bit lost this is part of the reason why I have so much to do with my nephew. The whole family all have a different approach. I was shocked by him using the word scum I do expect the odd bad word but not calling it directly to another little boys face, if it happened in the playground I wouldn’t accept it And I find it hard I have to accept it off my nephew. Is this autism? His behaviour gets worse not better if this is something I’m going to have to manage because it’s his autism then that means all the family has to get on the same song sheet.
He’s having a hard time in school as they have him a little area to have time out in and leaves it upto my nephew to decide when he feels upto coming back to his lessons hence now he has dropped off his expected levels and spends most of the day in his chill out area saying he is too stressed. Surely it can’t go in like this??

Thanks for the post? I’m new to mumsnet what is Aibu please and is there a way I should be posting? What’s wrong with the tone?

Just googled it. I posted on this thread as my nephew is autistic, there are things about his behaviour that isn’t very nice. It’s far from a “Am I bring unreasonable post” this is a little boys life!! Why should I have to pretend it’s all roses? He’s cheeky, treats people bad, doesn’t use basic manners and speaks to them terribly yet I keep looking after him to try to make his life better.

I didn’t realise this site was your site or I should consider my tone when posting ‘over hear’. If we don’t discuss the hard side of autism and say how it really is how can anyone ever share ideas and improve things.

Last night my sister came over to say goodnight to him, he pushed her away shouting in her face and she looked like she wanted to kill him. Let’s not chocolate coat this as that how it was. I could say his behaviour last night was challenging but then we sat down calmly and discussed it and decided on how he should have reacted in that situation but...... that’s not what happened at all! He shouted at him Mum, they got mad, had a verbal fight which took me 20 mins to calm down then he went off and wouldn’t even acknowledge anything had happened.

Anyway. Thanks for the help all

Did you expect people to be all "poor you"
Because you are not going to get it here.

OP, have you ever been in a position where you felt extremely wound up and stressed - and did you always behave appropriately in these situations? Did you ever curse or get more angry than you normally would? Most of us have had times where under pressure we have not acted in the ideal way. We 'should' make the right choice and react calmly but the reality is that many people will make the wrong choice in the heat of the moment.

For some people with autism, they lack the tools that most people have to cope with stressful situations. Therefore, they can more easily reach the point where they snap and do something they might regret later. They need to be helped to learn strategies to manage this. The strategy might involve avoiding particular situations or taking breaks to calm down etc.

If you were regularly under extreme stress and, as a result, were snapping at people and looking grumpy then some people might think you were not a very nice person. But in calmer situations you can be your true self and be a perfectly lovely person. Its not fair to decide your DN is not a nice person because of how he comes across when he is stressed.

Your DN is not the same person as your 8 year old son. Your DN has a disability and you need to make allowances for this and be understanding.

I don't think you should be getting so concerned about whether he says please or thank you and things like that. You are an aunt not his mother. Focus on having fun with him and giving him time to relax and be happy.

Is his mother happy with how you are dealing with him? I'd be annoyed if my DS's aunt was making a fuss about manners and things like that when my child obviously is finding things hard to cope with.

Also, problems tying laces and getting dressed can be due to motor skills problems that many people with autism have. My 8 year old is very, very slowly learning to tie laces but in the meantime we use these elastic laces so he can just slip his foot into and out of his shoes www.schuh.ie/accessories/shoe-accessories/shoe-laces/synch-bands-s-m-elastic-black-shoe-laces/7201417070/

Your opening post contained judgement of his mother, comments about him using asd as a tool and your instincts telling you he is not a nice child. Parents of children with asd get those things thrown at them all the time.
I don't know why you couldn't just describe the difficulties and ask for advice.

Do lots of reading about Autism in children.
Learn to understand most behaviours are anxiety driven.
Learn how to lessen his anxiety.

Stop treating him like a neurotypical (NT) child. He has a disability.
Stop expecting him to be age-appropriate for behaviour, he's emotionally about two thirds of his chronological age.
Find out if there's one of these in your area, both you and his mother need educating on how to help him. www.autism.org.uk/earlybird

Stop trying to make him behave like an NT child.

My nephew has been diagnosed as mild autism and Asperger but he isn’t bad enough to be statemented.

Who was he diagnosed by and what did the diagnosis actually say? (Don't print that here but it doesn't sound like a diagnosis, they don't use those terms)
Mild Autism is not a diagnosis, so stop thinking about anything being mild, it's not.

Ask for advice here on the diagnostic pathway and the ECHP process, he will need one in place to survive education, particularly when he transitions to secondary school.It can take years, start now.

As well as his mother, as you're caring for him, you also need to be as knowledgeable as you can be about his conditions to help him in the future.

Read all of the posts here several times, read this board and the SNChat board www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs_chat to see how other people help their autistic and otherwise disabled children.

Always remember this from Cereal's post Your DN is not the same person as your 8 year old son. Your DN has a disability and you need to make allowances for this and be understanding

"He’s having a hard time in school as they have him a little area to have time out in and leaves it upto my nephew to decide when he feels upto coming back to his lessons."

My son has that and it is a good thing as it is teaching him to manage his own behaviour. The school should be monitoring how much time he spends in there because if it is excessive that means that the school environment is not right for him.

Nope, not asking for or fishing for sympathy at all.

It sounds D's like you know very little about your nephews disability. As a main care giver why have you not read up on it?

I think as a starting point I would google the National autistic society and do some reading around autism and what it means to have autism. That will give you a basic understanding which should give you some insight.

However, all children (and adults) with autism have different levels of understanding and difficulties. No two people are the same. For example, with my own son who has asd aged 6 I would be able to say to him “no we don’t use the word scum” and he would say sorry and not use it again, however a lot of children would really struggle to understand what they’d done wrong even if they did say sorry if prompted to.

My son attends a specialist school for children with autism where he is one of 6 in his class with 3 teachers. If he went to mainstream school there is no way he would cope with the noise, sensory overload and generally crowded atmosphere so he would have frequent meltdowns (again, google autism meltdowns - these are not the same as a “tantrum” at all) and would probably end up in a room on his own as he would be so distressed. Lots of children with autism hold in their stress and anxiety during the whole school day trying to cope and then they explode like a bottle of fizzy drink when they get home.

If my son is stressed about something (which he often is around grandparents or family members as anyone other than us is a “lot of people” even though he is very close to his Grandma) the usual please and thank yous and generally chatter goes out of the window. We don’t push for this and accept its too much for him to manage. It’s a bit like being in Japan and not speaking Japanese and everyone around you speaking Japanese and pushing you to respond when you don’t know how to.

Also, there is no such thing as “mild” autism. People tend to think of autism like a line, with severe at one end and mild at the other but actually it’s more like a circle with dots all over in different areas. For example, a child could have very good cognitive levels (like my son, who is above many children of the same age academically- can read fluently, name and place all the countries in the world, knows all the uk and Japanese road signs etc) but he has severe sensory issues and also has severe self care needs (still uses a potty aged 6).

Autism is just autism now; there is no mild or severe.

the-art-of-autism.com/understanding-the-spectrum-a-comic-strip-explanation/

Well, I think I’ll get shot down for this. I have a DS with ASD. Not statemented. I would not stand for use of the word “scum”, swear words any more than my DD. There would be consequences. If he did not know the word was offensive, then fine, but if he did, no way woukd I think “oh, he’s autistic” and let him get away with it. However, getting upset and cross leaving the park, is different. Some ASD children find moving from one activity to the next really challenging. I always give my DS time warnings. So, OK, you can go down the slide 4 more times, or you can stay another 10mins, depending on his understanding. Your nephews DPs will no doubt have their own strategies that work. You DS probably needs help. Maybe contact the national autistic society and google local autistic groups and courses. I have explained to me DS he is not to use ASD as an “excuse”. It is for people to show understanding and for us to help him deal with situations, but never to allow him to behave badly. Yes, meltdowns will happen, but the aim is to see how he can react differently and avoid them.

nellieellie
Noone has said it's okay to let him use the word scum towards his cousin, it has been said that the op needs to explain why this isn't a nice thing to say, as you would with someone far younger.

As you are a close family, the best thing you can do is read up on and learn as much about ASD as you can. The more knowledge you have about ASD the easier to differentiate between autistic traits and generally tricky, childish behaviour.

And if you feel that things are very inconsistent for your nephew, gently suggest to your sister that perhaps you could sit down as a family and she could talk you all through what strategies she believes work/don't work at present. (And if all is done 'gently' and you feel that sometimes certain behaviours are dismissed when they could be talked through, now would be the time to raise that.)

X

He has asd and he needs boundaries like any child but u have to follow his mum's lead I guess

• using word scum - I'd have a chat about appropriate language, see if he understood the meaning. Then warn him it's not nice word and there would be consequences for using it again (we have 3 strike rule then chill out).

• park thing is pretty standard with lack of maturity. We use countdown so warnings at 10, 5, 3 and 1 min. But still end up carrying dc out on bad days.

• I insist on please and thank you with day to day tasks the same as I expect them to clear the table after a meal or they don't get dessert or ipad time.

• as to saying no and him saying I'm angry, think of it as a toddler reaction and then try and distract.

• getting dressed can take forever and I have to stand over dc tbh as they get easily distracted.

• my nearly 10 yr old can't tie shoes - we buy velcro

What I'm tying to say is asd kids still need boundaries and consequences for bad behaviour but I wouldn't expect the same standard of behaviour as NT 8 year old.

I cannot see anything wrong with OP’s post and u should all come off ur high horses and actually see that she cares about her nephew and is asking for support and advice not criticism!!!! And yes being autistic does not give u a green card to doing what u like and fishing for sympathy ‘poor bla bla he/she is autistic let’s let them get away with murder!’ U will not be doing ur child any kind of favours if u do not teach them what is acceptable or unacceptable as all kids learn at different rates and in different ways.. An autistic child who has tendency to pull down his trousers at 4 years old won’t get in trouble with the law but will definitely do so if he still does so at 18 and in a public place, so his autism won’t be seen as an excuse and the law my loves won’t be ‘understanding’..

OP the paediatrician I saw always told me to pick my battles so to set boundaries to issues we as a family find important and acceptable/unacceptable..

Autistic children do learn in different ways and it’s definitely all about trial and error so maybe trying out a few different approaches to see what suits u all as a family....Try to read up about different approaches using timers for countdowns, visuals, verbal reminders what ever will work for ur family.

Good luck and it’s great he has an understanding aunt who wants to help