ADHD / School Exclusion

[GrumpyWhenHungry]

I'll be as thorough yet as brief as possible....

Ds started reception in September and almost immediately started to show challenging behaviour, aggressive towards children/teachers, refusal to do work, defiancy. I've had to collect him from school a few times because they were unable to manage him.

He's been referred to CYPS and I'm expecting an ADHD diagnosis from what everyone is telling me. Our ds is currently on an agreed reduced timetable at school doing just one hour a day with his time at school being spent with a TA and a Behavioural Support Worker.

Since the support worker has been there and since he's only been doing an hour a day, his behaviour has improved. But he's generally segregated from his peers and isn't working on the curriculum at present.

My concern is that his time at school is going to be increased and when it's increased he won't have the support worker with him the whole time. If my son has any more of these challenging / aggressive behaviours when the support worker isn't there, the school are going to start to exclusion process.

Is there any way to prevent this?

I have absolutely no idea how we're going to get him back in school full time and participating with his peers, but I don't want him to be excluded.

He attended the school previously in the preschool for 18 months and was no bother at all.

Please help!!!

Bumping

Hi.
Sorry no real advice. I just wanted to say that i know how you feel. I could have written that post about my ds who also started in sept. I posted yesterday as we paid to see an ed psych privately but she wouldn't meet my son and total disaster. Our school are paying for a 1 on 1 as they have money for this but we've no real plan. They're only now saying they might contact services themselves. My d's kicked the teacher in the head yesterday and we had to collect him. None of the other parents will talk to me now! He's desperate for playmates but no invitations. ...

"If my son has any more of these challenging / aggressive behaviours when the support worker isn't there, the school are going to start to exclusion process"

Have the school actually said that? If so, that's terrible. They should be making reasonable adjustments for your DS to attend full time (a P/T timetable should never be used long term - believe me I know, DS was on one for 3 years).
If that means full time 1:1 then they need to find the funding for that - they might have to ask for high needs funding.
If he can cope with support, but not without, then he needs support all the time.

Have a look at the IPSEA website and applying for an EHCP yourself.

Finally - if the school don't seem supportive or creative in how they support him, or you constantly feel like they have 'never seen this before' then it could be a long 7 years, and it might be worth looking at other schools that are more at home in supporting child who don't fit a round hole.

Thanks for the replies.

Good luck with your Ds!

They have paid for an educational psych to go in for an observation. She made a pretty damning report of him. We approached another ed psyche privately who nonsensed the first one.

We are upping the hour to an hour and a half next week. Full support in that time with a support worker. But after that the time with the support worker tails off and his time at school increases.

Yes, I have been told that if he is a danger to other pupils or himself in school once the support worker is gone then he will be excluded, first for a day, then two days etc.

The school have applied for an EHCP. We have a meeting next week with CYPS (assessment already been done) , the support worker, a behavioural support teacher, Senco and the headteacher.

I just don't see how I'm going to get him in school full time doing school work. I don't see how at all.

Does he like school?
My DS was always relieved when he was excluded because he found school so stressful.
I always felt for him exclusions did nothing - he didn't 'learn' from his mistakes.

What needed to be done (at the time, things lots better now in year 4) was a real understanding of what was trigger him to behave like he was (so things like being made to line up - he was too close and hemmed in which made him lash out / assemblies - too loud and sitting for too long / dinnerhall - too many smells / playground - games he didn't understand the rules of, running around which overstimulated him and then he pulled kids onto him to calm down / any transition time / writing because he's hypermobile and it genuinely hurt, plus he can't ever think of anything to write, plus many other triggers)
So the list is long!
Building in sensory breaks is imperative for DS to ensure he stays regulated and in a just right state - this is where OT input is important.

Also, it might be your DS got sensory breaks and regulation naturally at preschool due to the amount of free play they have, hence why he coped better there.

I think it's helpful to see it as anxiety rather than challenging or aggressive - they need to figure out what's causing his distress and his fight / flight reaction and put strategies in place to support him.

Thanks for that Marsh

Can I request he be in full time with 1 : 1 Support? Or is that down to funding? He is better with his support worker and TA on 1:1 but they still have blips with him. Today being one of them

You can request it of course, but whether the school can provide it will come down to funding. They can apply to the High Needs Fund. They need to ensure they are making 'reasonable adjustments' for your DS to access education.

If you go down the EHCP route then at the end you should end up with a legally binding document that specifies what level of support your DS should have, so in theory if it's full time the school definitely have to provide it.
Reality is though LAs avoid specifying a lot of the provision (so you end up with woolly things like 'would benefit from...').

I would read as much as you can on Ipsea about EHCPs. There are plenty of past posts on here too (I gleaned everything I needed to know from extensive reading of these boards).

If possible I would apply yourself, with school's support - rather than let them do it. That way you are in control of all the supporting evidence, and if you have to appeal a no assessment decision (again, fairly default by LAs designed to put parents off, but 85% of no decisions are overturned at Tribunal, and they are just paper hearings so you don't have to attend in person).

You will learn, as most of us here have, that you are going to be your child's biggest (and sometimes) only advocate on this journey. Educate yourself as much as you can on the law, illegal exclusions, part time timetables etc (lots on Ipsea about this).

These boards are a massive support - we all know how hard it can be at times trying to get the support our children should be entitled to.

Also - there's always blips! DS still has those days, even with all the support he has - don't take it heart.
But it helps to have a kind, supportive and forgiving school on your side when they do happen.

You really need to apply for an EHCP as soon as possible - the evidence for it being needed is very strong. Information about how to do it is on the Ipsea website.

Hi Op, we (well our children) have a lot in common! Ds started reception in September and his behaviour was off the charts. On one of the many... meetings we had to attend, exclusion was mentioned as a last resort and it lead to months of me worrying. Also like you, the NHS paed consultant said he could not be diagnosed with anything at that point (October) despite the school being unable to cope with him. The school amazingly managed to get him funding for support 1:1 TA without a diagnosis of ADHD or ASD. His behaviour, which consisted or aggression, distraction, endless and dangerous climbing have all calmed down massively and he's actually achieving academically as he should be for his age. Such a massive difference in such a short space of time. Things can go from utterly shit to so much better in such a short space of time when they're so young.

That is so reassuring to hear Tiffany. I hope things continue to improve for your dc and for you x

As CYPS are involved I'm pretty sure they're going to diagnose from what was said at our last meeting . The school have applied for an EHCP and at next weeks meeting I'm going to request permanent 1:1 support full time for him.

Not sure how I stand realistically with that request.
Academically he is v capable. His maths is great. He can read at expected levels. It's just his behaviour. So frustrating and sad

He's such a different boy to six months ago. I feel like I'm grieving the old him in a way which is just ridiculous. He's so different now.

Tough times. But I really appreciate your response, it's reassuring

What the school is doing at the moment is illegal exclusion, regardless of whether you have agreed to a part time timetable or not. Your son has a right to a full time education just like any other child.

www.ipsea.org.uk/what-you-need-to-know/exclusion-from-school

If he needs 1:1 support full time, this is what needs to be in place either from the school's own funding or through an EHCP maintained by the LA.

We are in a similar boat and also on a part time timetable.

School can not afford to supply a 1:1 out of their budget. As much as they'd love to, they just can't magic one out of nowhere. They need to wait for any EHCP funding which is months in the making. Our area has got rid of the emergency funding pot as well.

He's basically on a part time table until something more can be sought - which will be months away. If he goes in full time, he won't cope and they will end up having to permanently exclude him as his behaviour is SO bad now.

Utterly horrendous and I too am grieving for the little boy of a year ago where I had no idea anything was wrong and we were all so happy.

Snow my feelings exactly

What's the position you're in? How old is your boy?

He's 7 and only started having problems this academic year but they have snowballed hugely. We're on waiting lists to see everyone, have been for months and still waiting. School super helpful but can't do anymore at this stage without money from elsewhere. He's been excluded almost daily in the run up to the part time timetable so he will almost certainly get permanently excluded if he goes full time. I think we'll end up having to home educate him in the end as even if he gets funding, I can't see it being for a 1:1. Nightmare.

How long ago did the school apply for an EHCP? Has the local authority agreed to assess?

I understand my situation with the school is rare as it's an absolutely tiny school (7 rec pupils) and they probably have more time and access to funding. I'm still amazed at what they've got without ds even having a concrete diagnosis.

I too have been through the processes of grieving for the boy I thought I had. He was always so sweet and happy and always met his milestones, smiling, walking, eye contact, the lot. And now I'm having to watch at a playground or soft play that he doesn't attack anyone FFS. He went from happily being at nursery to biting, and pushing at school. But as I said before after a hellish 6 months he seems to be coming out the other side. I've still got to accept that he's not going to have the easy life of an NT child but he's clever and happy and things are on the up. They will be for your boy too. Keep fighting for him.

EHCP was only applied for last week.

It's a small school, 100 pupils ish, and I have to say, on a whole they have been v supportive. The HT is keen to not go down the exclusion route but I get the feeling it's also the governors decision (it's a church aided school so I think the governors have more of a role in decision making? Could be wrong)

I'm honestly not prepared to homeschool unless absolutely necessary. I'm not working at the moment and financially I need to get back into work. No family nearby to help with childcare so it's down to me.

Best wishes to you lovely mnrs, thanks for the replies

Gnothergnu - our EHCP request for assessment went in last week as they needed various bits back from people. Everything takes forever. So we've got 5 weeks to find out if they will assess and then 16 weeks after that....OP what about you?

Tiffany - same here. I can't even let him do things he used to without watching like a hawk as he might lash out/hit/kick/punch etc. So pleased things are on the up for your boy, just shows there is light at the end of the tunnel with the right input and support.

Governors should have no part whatsoever in making decisions about exclusion (apart from their duty to review them after they have happened). It's worth your while checking out the School Exclusion Guidance - there's a lot of emphasis there on exclusion being a very last resort for children with SEN and the expectation that schools will bust a gut to meet SEN before excluding. Really the school should be applying for exceptional funding to help your child and keep him in school, since by law he is entitled to full time education. Also by law if he is on a part time timetable, they should at the very least be arranging home tuition - otherwise they are guilty of disability discrimination. This case report is a useful read.

snowdaze, if your LA decide to assess they then have 10 weeks to do the assessment and tell you if they are not going to issue an EHCP. If they are going to issue one, they must do so within 14 weeks of the decision to assess, or 20 weeks from when they received the request for assessment.

Thank you Gnu, some really helpful information. I want to get as informed as possible in case the exclusion route is started.

I've been given work for him to complete at home but tbh he's v reluctant to do it and all the work he has done, no one has asked to see it to check it or anything. It's more fun things really. Ill be asking lots of questions at the meeting next week

Yes make sure you are clued up on the timescales. LAs are notorious for ignoring them and breaching legal deadlines.It took us 71.5 weeks to get an EHCP for our son.

I was told that although it is 20 weeks start to finish, in reality it'll be delayed by months and months as the council are really behind not hem and aren't meeting any deadlines.

What happens if they breach? - is it just accepted or is there something you can do to kick up a fuss?

No no no don't accept it. It is unlawful to breach the deadlines. Follow the LA complaints procedure, then the Ombudsman.

Delays mean your child is not getting what they are entitled to. Because of our LA's delaying tactics and disregarding the law, our son lost a whole year out of education.

www.ipsea.org.uk/what-you-need-to-know/challenging-decisions

Our case is in here:

www.lgo.org.uk/assets/attach/4197/EHCP%20FINAL2.pdf