Mainstream/Special

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The view amongst various professionals is that DS (13, Asd) could be supported in either a mainstream school that is small with a decent Senco, or a special school catering for kids with so-called 'high functioning' autism. I think this is probably right. Can I ask those who you who similar kids what you decided, what you would decide etc, or any thought on this at all. It's a big decision and I so want to get it right. He is currently out of school due to a horrible time in a massive MS secondary, but to be honest a lot of things went very wrong that were specific to that school, so it hasn't made me rule out MS entirely.

I got stuck on this for ages. The professionals all said DS should be able to do great at mainstream if properly supported. But eventually it was so awful we left and he now goes to a special school. The thing is these professionals all mean well when they are so encouraging and no doubt technically are right but there's a slight element of them being in a bit of an ivory tower. Not at the coal face of your average underfunded mainstream school. To be fair there are so many inherent problems at MS (too big, too noisy, kid feels like a freak for being the one constantly out of the class) that even if the attitude is good and funding for support is there the child might have a better time at special school. Just my personal experience!

DS (HFA) was out of school for a year after only managing a term at a massive MS secondary.

We applied for and got an EHCP for DS and found a small independent MS with good pastoral care - the key thing is the small size and small classes mean the staff know the pupils well.

State MS wasn’t going to work for DS because of the size, and special schools ( within commuting distance - he wouldn’t manage boarding) weren’t going to give him the academic options he needs.

Ds2 moved from one mainstream state school to another. Both had excellent pastoral care, but he found the second much easier because he had far more intervention with a tailored EHCP which he hadn't had in the first. He was home educated in the middle aged 12-14, which I think meant he had a bit more confidence in himself. I think 11-15 is a terrible stage when you have ASD - social skills are really key then to make friendship groups. The second state school had a far more developed social support system, and lots of similar kids to Ds. He has really blossomed there, and now moves into circles that suit him, rather than defined by SEN ifysim. At the time we were considering a small indie special school for HFA, but I am so so glad we hung on, despite initial teething problems with large class sizes and bad behaviour from rowdy students upsetting him (part and parcel of large mainstream I fear) I think he would have been forever defined by his ASD in a specialist setting, and told all the time he was brilliant/lovely without ever pushing himself beyond that small safe world. When we went round the special school he hated it. So maybe he knew himself. I think that might be a good way to test the water, does he feel comfortable in special school? I trusted my child''s intuition beyond early "transition" phobia, which of course distorts things a mite.

Pannetone's solution sounds ideal though. Our problem is that hardly any mainstream indie would look at Ds2 when they saw his EHCP and the details thereof...even a specialist dyslexia school like Fairley House wouldn't touch him with a bargepole, when they saw he had concentration issues shorthand for them for disruptive behaviour, but ds has never displayed any concentration issues in his new mainstream state school, he has been better behaved than most of the other students!

The problem with special schools for ASC is that they contain children with a lot of behavioural problems (like ds1!!!!) and sensory issues so although some problems are sorted out you find you have a new set of problems that cause anxiety.

You certainly will not get the same academic levels as in mainstream. We have found reduced range of subjects offered and lower aspirations.

You may well have to travel a long distance to a specialist school and transport can bring its own set of problems and anxieties.

Teachers tend to be more flexible in the specialist schools but do not always have the experience you would hope for (in our experience many have come from a mainstream background). Having said that ds1 does currently have some very good ones.

If you go the specialist school route I would look very carefully about pupil profile, how they manage behaviour and exam results. We found that the specialist schools promised a lot but do not always deliver.

It's true. DS has gone from being referred to social services for violent behaviour (in Mainstream) to the goody-two shoes of the class (in Special School). I do feel bad when he says one of the other boys grabbed him or a similar incident but the teachers do seem to deal with things promptly. As to the academic side of things, also true that very unlikely to get the same academic levels in special schools. But DS was rock bottom academically in Mainstream so on that front it didn't feel like there was much to lose.

Thanks so much for all your messages, and sorry not to get back sooner - my weekend got a bit crazy!

This is exactly the kind of food for thought I was hoping for. Obvs I still don't know what to choose but it'll help my thinking as I visit schools. I know what you mean Pannetone about ivory towers. And also my experience is of being promised xyz and it just not happening - the gap between what is promised and reality!

The academic levels is definitely an issue. DS is very bright although you wouldn't guess that from his school levels! So, ideally he needs somewhere that supports him well and allows him to be stretched.

Nettleskeins, can I ask you about the good 'social support system' at your DC's MS school? what does it consist of? Totally agree that this age is a difficult one when you're autistic!

We also had to make a decision for DD - also HFA, now in Year 8. She stopped managing MS in Y4 and moved to a very small special/specialist independent school.

There is no way she would have managed a move to a large state MS for Y7. (The special school was less than 30 pupils overall and class sizes of around 10) So the choice was the small MS indie DS attends or a state special school - actually a very well regarded one for girls with ASD. Sounded good but the academic options were more limited than a MS - especially by GCSE options time.

It felt like a bit of a gamble choosing the MS indie - DD was out of class for a couple of terms when primary MS went wrong. But she has made a good transition - and is enjoying learning with pupils with similar academic levels.

I have to echo what Nettleskeins said though - it can be hard to find a MS indie that doesn’t automatically say they ‘can’t meet needs’ for DC with ASD. That was the response from a few we approached.

There is a lunchtime club (all ages at secondary) for the SEN students, so they can retreat, and eat lunch out of hurly burly. It is in a very pleasant room, and they can read or play chess or chat (all academic levels mix freely)
There are supported cross year residential trips where children with SEN are encouraged to come, alongside any other NT children, rather than just big year group residentials.
Ds sees a pastoral support person whenever he wants (at least once a day if he wanted - at the beginning it was timetabled)
Teachers are used to children with academic profiles having SEN, so do not confuse the two, however they do expect children to obey rules..
There is lots going on (music sport drama science film debating) apart from just academic work - it is not a bootcamp.
But maybe for ds the key was, he was that bit older when he joined, so had the skills necessary?

And because ds's EHCP was so clear and detailed about his academic profile _ normal IQ but unable to get things down on paper, appalling handwriting, his presentation or spelling has never ever been an issue, and he has been given lots of support in lesson writing things up or drafting things but not to extent he felt embarrassed. They were used to dealing with children like him.

This is a situation we are facing right now - at least, if the LA agrees to consider a specialist placement. DD currently goes to a LOVELY MS school - quiet, rural, with a high focus on pastoral aspects, little stress (very little homework etc compared to other schools, lowkey SATS etc), and the TAs are great with DD - BUT - she is the only kid there with SEN affecting her on a day to day basis, the only one to ever visit the SENCO's office, possibly the only one with ASD. All this makes social stuff difficult and she is withdrawing a lot at school, mostly doing stuff away from the classroom with her TAs. As a result I am with a lot of trepidation hoping that there will be a place for her in a SS I've visited - a bit of a way to travel, and certainly much more challenging, but with kids like her and with a real focus on championing their autism without using it as an excuse, which I think will be good for her. But it's going to be hard and I am still vacillating as to whether the v. quiet, lovely MS is best. (but she'd have to leave it in a year anyway...)

Thanks for outlining the social provision Nettleskeins - it sounds great. We're going through the EHCP transfer now and determined to have it as accurate as possible.
Glad your daughter made such a good transition Pannetone, that's a huge thing.
Good luck Lucysnowe with the LA. It's very hard isn't, I have to admit I'm so worried about getting it wrong. DS had such a horrible time in MS secondary, that to go through something similar again could affect him very seriously.

I have this issue almost constantly running somewhere at the forefront or back of my mind.

Part of the issue is whether there is a suitable school for a girl with hfa around here. Can I ask whether your lovely ssh is anywhere near London lucy?

ssh=ss

Hi output not really it's in Oxfordshire :( V tricky I agree to find SS for girls - luckily (!) DD is fairly 'male' in her autism. I've been told, although I haven't looked into it too much, that Limpsfield Grange would be a bit too mainstream for her.