why oh why do I never learn?

[gess]

I told ds1 at 1pm that his tutor (who he hasn't see for over a week) will be in later to see him. He has screamed, cried, hit himself and shouted non-stop since then. because he wants her here NOW, not later, NOW. I ALWAYS do this say' oh later we'll go to.... x" then he cries non stop and tries to drag me out of the door until we get to the time to leave.

Hmm,why do you tell him then?

I told him because I talk to him, and I don't think. Often it's just conversational. It's a natural thing to say. I realise as soon as the words are out of my mouth that I shouldn't say it, but it doesn't mean I can always stop myself saying something before I do.

Actually at the time I told him it was because he was trying to drag me out to go up the street- and I have ds2 and ds3 here so I said somehting like "ds1 I can;t take you out now but G will be here later".

h ok.
Very hard not to I know.
Do you use egg timers or similar at all (I know not so useful in this scenario?)

i have seen a fantastic clock face from Consortium being used in class.It goes from white to red in portions as the hour (or whatever) ticks down.

egg timers no good- too stimmy. I was having a conversation about the clock faces the other day. I've uhmed and ahhed over them for ages because I'm worried about them being stimmy and can't decide whether to get the clock or a watch. I think the watch might be a better bet, but it's only available in the States AFAIK.

oh my god fio - identical lives again. if we go out to the moor (past my parents) I have to say "we're not seeing g and g ds1, we're just driving past, not going to g and g's" ad infinitum. Thinking about it there are whole routes where I have to explain something to avoid a tantrum- it is so irritating. Also like you routes I'm not allowed to take, sometimes with no idea why.

When ds1 is kicking off waiting for something I always find myself saying 'later' when I should know that is a cue for him to headbutt the nearest hard thing immediately. But it just kind of comes out of my mouth 'later'.

Snap,fio and gess. Ds2 is doing better these days, but I still feel like kicking myself (or he does it for me ) when I tell him about something too soon, or using the wrong phrase, or, prob worst, forget to prepare him if we're driving past somewhere he'll want to go.

Velcro timetable? I know you know all about every poss stategy, gess, but I know we sometimes go back to old favourites after a break...

Long to wait now?

velcro timetables just don't work for us. shame as we have a house of velcro

My very clever dh told ds2 we are going on hols in 6 weeks. ffs he thinks we are going tomorrow - I will have him mithering every day now until we go and going crazy about it. I have tried a calendar before now, you know the type of this crossing each day out in the evening and a sunshine on the day we go but they get ripped or crayoned on etc.

Maybe this is madness and probably I know nothing, but how about a talking timer?

I used to have one on a calculator I had, which you can set several hours in advance. Then it chimes every .. 30 minutes I think it was, and says how much time is left. And then when it gets up to 30 minutes before the alotted time it chimes every 5 minutes, but when the alotted time arrives it plays a little tune, so there is a difference between counting down the time and when the time is up iyswim.

Obv there is potential for huge annoyance though ...?

Mummy2 Aaron,i have found picture calendars such as the one you describe to be incredibly useful both as a salt and a mother.
If you keep control of it,it won't get wrecked.

Wannabe,that sounds great.
I can think of a good few people who would benefit from that.

one of the visual timers combines that wannabe and I couldn;t decide whether it would just make things worse- whether ds1 would be desperate for the noises. It could go either way.

His problem really is that he cannot wait at all, not for 2 minutes, and he will keep up screaming for hours if he wants something he has to wait for. They have a 3 waits system at school which we use at home which is a strip with 3 buttons on. After a while you take off one button then another then finally the wiating is over after the last button has gone. He can use that to tolerate waiting for about a maximum of 5 minutes- any longer and he's lost it.

Gess,have you considered that you are reinforcing his non waiting behaviour by not making him wait?

Have you thought of principle of extinction burst?

Just an idea.

It doesn't work moondog. believe me years have been spent on trying to teach waiting. I make him wait- I made him wait all afternoon today to go out in the street (3 hours) - he screamed the whole time. It's bloody awful when you have 2 other children to deal with.

I make him wait at supermarket tills and he punches me. I make him wait for chips at McD's and he screams the place down, I make him wait until everyone else has finished eating at McD's and he headbutted the window.

He just cannot do it. The 3 waits system is a vast improvement, but it was tested every day last week (because he kept wanting the helpers to leave- and I attempted to use 3 waits to stop him kicking them out of the door- it only had about a 10 minute max working period). Several days he screamed all afternoon for the helpers to leave.

I will talk to GM about it again- but the usual behaviuoral methods are wait cards and reinforcement building up slowly- which is where we are after 2 years with 3 waits buttons. But we've only made it to 10 minutes tops ((and that's only inside- outside the house- forget it - they don't work at all)

Bummer.
Thought that was probably the case.

Have you tried stretching out the wait card thing by tiny increments?

yep- that's who it's got to the 10 minutes max. It was zero when we started.

The real pain is that it doesn;t work outside the house at all. I was thinking about it this morning and it's one of the main reasons we can;t go anywhere.

Could you not try it out in 'halfway' places?
The garden,schoolyard,porch and so on,then gradually extend?

Realize of course it would be bloody hard work but if you started with waiting for very powerful reinforcers say???

It just doesn't work (I know i sound defeatist) but outside places are too difficult- too many compulsions, too many things to see and run off to invesitgate. The visual compulsions are soo strong out and about.

What I am setting up is working on stopping when his name is called when out and about. At the moment you can't let go of him for one second or he's off- so its a tight wrist grip all the time. I would like that to go so am working on trying to get him to walk next to us.

It needs 2 or 3 people, an enclosed space away from traffic, but I have some people organised for the summer.

What about somethin g to cut down visual stimuli?
Baseball cap?

Sunglasses?

I have worked for years getting my son to walk holding my hand without pulling or dragging. He now walks (most of the time) with no trouble. Like you gess, I have considered trying to allow him a little more freedom. Our school route has 2 ally ways with no roads or exits so ideal. However I am concerned that he will not be able to differentiate between areas he needs to hold and areas he can walk next to me. I'm torn, I want him to progress but worried he may actually regress and then I will struggle taking him out! He is only 6 but school is a 20 min walk and he is too big and strong to fight with all the way!

He won;t wear hats. He likes red sunglasses, but that makes him rush to lok at things close up.

same dilemma tibni- but he's rising 8. I can't see how it would be safe to let go of him though. I've made a bit of a breaktrhough with the pulling and tugging in the last few weeks. As soon as he does it I stop dead and tell him he has to point in the direction he wants to go. He does (kind of) do it now.

Tibni I have been working on ds2 walking to school with me too (elder brothers school, ds2 starts sept) he has a thing for walking on the white lines in the road, luckily we don't hit the main road on the journey but he will just run off and I have a pram to push too. Very scarey. Reins and wrist links drive him crazy he screams and shouts on the floor and won;t move. I hate going anywhere to be honest. He has a thing about dog poo at the moment and was rolling in it on the way home this afternoon. I have a neighbour taking ds1 tomorrow, I wish it could be a permanent arrangement lol.

I remember a couple of years back I met a lady with a ds very similar to your ds.
She was getting a weighted jacket and apparently it helps keep children calm.
She also had a major buggy, would you consider one for trips out maybe?
Sorry just ideas I am wracking my brains to help you with

I really thought weighted stuff would help. I borrowed a large blanket from an OT and he hated it. A few years later I bought a lap blanket from ebay- he still wouldn't tolerate it.

any sympathy @ do poo!

Major buggy- I would consider- dh very anti. I don;t think it would work though as I had to stop using the normal buggy when he was 3 as he would just stand up and walk away with it. I thought it might help security wise (as he likes to sit in his baby brother's) but dh very anti and I;m not convinced enough that it would work to try it anyway iyswim.

Thanks for the suggestions though, they are helpful- and make me try and think laterally.