Is it common to have children with asd in language bases?

[Blossomhill]

My dd is in a language base and she has an asd. Although her primary needs is a language disorder.
I am now wondering just how common it is as I remember once someone said on here that they don't take children with asd's? Dd's school have said it's not the label but the primary needs that are taken in to account.

sorry, my ds's both in or going to m/s, so i dont really know, but i know the senco told me that despite lack of a dx with ds3, they would teach him how he behaved, which is asd, so i suppose it makes sense that despite being asd, if a big part of the problem is language and speech, then they would go to a language base, hope she will come on well, as she will probably get quite intensive speech therapy, which will make a lot of difference hopefully. am sure someone with much better knowledge than me will be along soon.

I recall my ds's SALT saying to me that even though ds would benefit from being in a language unit once he moves up to Juniors in Sept, he would be at the bottom of the list because even though he was diagnosed with ASD, language wasn't his main problem, despite the fact she stated he had a severe social communication difficulty.

Blossomhill, it does vary according to individual unit's policies but most will look at primary need and lots of asd children will have speech and lang difficulties as their primary need, in which case it can be an absolutely ideal placement for them. Lots of language units use visual systems to support verbal language, which benefits many asd kids, and have plenty of language practice through role playing social situations.

Hi BH! I know that one of the language units where I live doesn't take children with ASD because they feel their needs are different. I know someone who desperately wanted to get her child in there before he was dx ASD and then felt very strongly that it wouldn't have been right for him once his ASD became clear (he is very hf btw). I don't exactly remember her thought processes on this but it made sense when she told me. He has since gone to m/s with very good support and thrived. Our local general SN school also had a policy for years of not taking children with ASD...... except many of them had ASD but had not been dx on entry. Now they have a couple of classroom just for ASD!

I agree that what really matters is the needs of the child and the areas of deficit/difficulty.

i am watching this thread with interest as dd has a language disorder, not yet dx,d but they are talking semantic pragmatic and possible asd.
she has just been referred for a place in an ICAN nursery which im hoping she will get and there is a school with a language base that she would be able to go to when she starts reception.
i didnt realise that some places dont take chidren wit a dx of asd when they have clear language problems.

DS at a language unit although diagnosed ASD. His main difficulty has been verbal communication. It was a huge battle to get him into the unit but it has been so worthwhile. He is thriving!

Hi - my son has an asd and at 6 is still non-verbal myself and other families in my area were told by a speech and language therapist ( that works in the language centre ) " they won't except a child with an asd as they aren't deemed treatable enough!!" WHAT A KICK IN THE TEETH!! Real problems in our area for children with asd's

Charlea,as a salt myself,I would advise you (unofficially of course) to start kicking up a BLOOODY HUGE FUSS about that.
Outrageous!!!!!

So waht e;lse are you being offered then??

charlea- hmm I am wondering if you are in my area. DS1 (severely autistic) was refused SALT at 3 because "he can't do anything and doesn't understand anything so there's no point". I have heard from a trainee SALT that things are even worse now and they have a policy of only treating children who are fixable. ie not those with ASD (this is community SALT- ds1 now comes under learning disability as he;s a sepcial school so he gets it- couldn't access it at pre--school/mainstream though).

God,it's such a load of absolute bollocks.
Shout long and hard and loud.
Withpout going into too much detail was with a mother last week whose campaigning (when her child was 6) led to our education authority opening a new lang. unit.

moondog I tried and all I got was an uninterested MP telling me how much money labour has put into the NHS, my name passed on by the acting head of SALT to all sorts of nutters I then had to field phone calls from, and bugger all. I'd campaign for special schools because I believe in them, but NHS community SALT is dead down here. Oh I did have one achievement - theya dvertised for maternity cover when the SALT went off on maternity leave- and supposedly couldn't find anyone (which is weird since loads of people can't get jobs). .

Well,I think parents would be pleasantly surprised at how much notice (unofficially) is taken of parents who kick up a fuss.
A good place to start is head of therapy services.
Local newspapers help.
Sniffy solicitor's letter frightens the crap out of 'em.

I believe that over 75% of community salt is worthless.What the hell do you achieve in a clinic visit or in a once termly visit to a school?

The only thing that works is having a salt attached long term to a school who has a good rapport with staff and can ensure that effective strategies have been put into place and continue to be maintained.

I have kids come to our special schools and although obviously parents are sad about this (at least initially) we get hardly any complaints thereafter about amount and quality of salt.

I would be phoning the head of salt myself Gess.

Four or five times a day.

I would find out where their office was and go in.

I was never sad about ds1 going to special school, I was overjoyed! And I do not have the energy to do anything you mention in your last paragraph!

We actually officially got SALT in mainstream as I insisited it was in part 2, but that only scared the LEA, the HA didn't give a monkeys (and in the end the LEA paid for our private SALT to go in- they had no choice).

I'm also an SLT.

I used to work in a language unit that didn't accept children with ASD because the children had to have a diagnosis of specific language impairment (SLI) as the primary concern.

Over the couse of about eight years the situation changed because there seemed to be more kids with ASD and not enough properly tailored, appropriate educational placements for them.

The SLI kids now go out into mainstream and the ASD kids go to the language unit, which doesn't seem to be the answer. The answer would be appropriate placements for the ASD kids.

I am also concerend for the SLI kids in mainstream. As Moondog rightly said, what sort of help can they get from a community clinician visiting once a term? My last job was one of a visiting specialist SLT and I felt very ineffective.

I felt so ineffective that I have taken my skills to Australia where I am about to start a new job!

I personally think that a child's needs should be looked at first before the dx. My dd has AS but it is her language disorder that remains her primary need and apparently that's all that matters?

Depends what education is on offer.

If you have a language unit staffed by teachers and therapists who have no real specialist skill in the area of ASD, then is that language unit the best place for a child with ASD?

That's when it matters what the main difficulty is. Unfortunately the education system just isn't properly tailored to each child.

When I was working as an SLT in a language unit, I couldn't get funding to go on any courses about ASD. The only person who was allowed to go on ASD related courses was the ASD specialist, who didn't work in the language unit.

Not good for ASD kids in those circumstances.

Fortunately for us mogwai the staff do have lots of experience and so does the main part of the school. They have a high percentage of children with communication difficulties in the ms part too.

It's good to hear it's working in some places.

Hit and miss in others.

Very difficult position to find yourself in as a therapist. Can't give a good service, parents blame you.

Hence move to Australia. Actually, the things I read on this board contributed to me wanting to emigrate.

Oh hello Mogwai!
WQas wondering how you are getting on!
How's the babe?

Yes,it is madness. Loads of lunatic decisions such as the one you cite re ASD specialist being only person who is allowed to train.

Que?????

I am doing an MSc in ABA which I started in my own time and with my own money on extended maternity leave.I am given study leave for the day a week I attend lectures now,although fees and all additional work are paid by me and done in own time.

My prime concern is (sorry to use awaful term) cascade this knowledge down which I am doing with very positive rsults.

My next mission is now to introduce those that work with and plan adults services to the wonders of a particular application of ABA.It is known as Active Support and is about ensuring young people and adults in residentail setting are maximally engaged with the community and the routines and patternd of everyday life. Fantastic stuff.
(Loads of ace stuff going on in Oz in this field Mogwai.)
Listen out for it.

i would echo what you have said about complaining and kicking up a huge fuss as i have twice.

DS out of school for 18 months taught by LEA in our home, SLT-cant do anything with him, as he,s not in school, advise that you get back in touch when he goes back in, cue very angry letter to head of SLT accusing them of discharing DS cos he isnt in school due to his disability and that is discrimination, we now have 2 SLT,s that are going to work with DS one of whom is a specialist in ASD,s.

2nd time re DD, not taking our concerns about her seriously, cue another letter to same head, copied in to Paed accusing them of discriminating against dd cos she,s under PAED from another authority, which is what happened, now she has just had an asessment by specialist SLT and has been referred to ICAN who will go into nursery and work with her once a week IF they agree to take her and if they dont WATCH THIS SPACE.

Its awful that we have to complain, we have a bout 6/7 different letters going back and forth between various NHS and LEA depts as both our kids have speech problems, but complaining does get results

Loads of generally fab stuff going on here in Aus, Moondog. Lots of it is though charities and other places though. I'm not sure the public, NHS-type service is any better (actually I've heard it's worse) but kids with specific difficulties eg ASD, SLI, deafness etc get very structured help because they have a diagnosis.

In this sense, in this country, having a diagnosis is a positive thing.

(The babe is almost two and into everything. Loves Aussie life though).