Daughter bullying me?

[Chickenloverwoman]

Daughter aged nearly 17 Since aged 3 been very difficult, rigid in what she wanted to happen around her, screaming tantrums if anything changed from what she expected or if things changed unexpectedly
Been through CAMHS several times since age five, no diagnosis although she was provided with a support worker once a week at primary school. Transitioned to secondary school, tantrums continued just like terrible threes, even though it has never got her what she demanded. As parents we've been on every parenting course suggested and done everything camhs and courses asked. Made no difference to her behaviour.
She's now nearly 17, bigger than me,stronger than me,violent to both of us on occasions, verbally very abusive hourly to me and lesser to her father, expresses disgust at me regularly and uses really vile language to us both
We regularly have to lock ourself away to protect ourself, she continues to kick the door and scream abuse at me/us even though locked away. We called the police once a few months ago but backed off from pressing charges because it would have resulted in her being taken away in a po!ice car. What parent wants to give their child a police record at aged 16?
We've done nothing (as far as we know) to cause any of this, tried to be firm but fair, given warnings then consequences but nothing seems to make her change her behaviour? She just gets furious at whatever the consequence was. ( usually loss of wifi) as advised by support workers as age appropriate consequence. She also steals stuff from us, breaking into locked private cupboards, locked because of her previous poor behaviour.
Tbh at wits end. We face another two years now she's in sixth form and in not sure how much more of this we can take. We dread coming home to the house with her in it, or school home time because its so tense around her. If this were my husband I was talking about I suspect I'd be advised to go to WA and the police. But what can I do?

DD has done mock A levels recently. Her behaviour has been very worrying, we assume because of the additional stress she's been under and then we had half term break, so the usual problems with the transition from term time to holiday. It usually takes until at least the Wednesday after the end of term for her behaviour to calm down and things to improve in mood.
So it's not been great around here.

She's also furious we've been talking to various of her support workers (at their invitation!) and has decided we are now forbidden to be part of her care.

Camhs say they want and expect us in meetings, but that yes, she is entitled to refuse to have us in the meetings or tell us any formal diagnosis she may get.

She now won't co operate with us at even the most basic level in the home, which makes even more work for us.

I do think it's partly about control, she very often will try to make us do what she wants by taking our belongings and refusing to return them until we agree to do whatever it is. Which we don't fall for.

But, if she now refuses to share her diagnosis or discuss stuff with us, how can we help and support her in the future?

I know about the Triangle of Care, so in theory we should still get some info, as we are, I think, classed as her Carers? But we've never been told anything about that aspect, and have no support offered, if we are classed as her Carers?

With thanks to @LadysFingers for the info about Triangle of Care, most useful and we'd never been given this info before, or realised we might class as DD's carers. We just thought of ourselves as her parents, but actually, I think we are now her carers?

My son is 11 I'm now laid in bed sobbing after he's kicked and punched me for 30 mins .

Oh that's horrible :(

Both of you, have you had an assessment of need for DC, and a carer’s assessment for you? If you have other children, they are also children in need, because they are likely to be young carers, and affected by what is going on in their home. There should be a whole family approach by Social Services.

Do you get DLA for DC? Then you could claim carer’s allowance if your earnings are below the limit. OP could apply for ESA for DD, as she over 16 and a full time disabled student and then her school could get the bursary for disabled students (around £1,200 pa) iirc.

We don't claim anything, never have? (Apart from child benefit)

DD is in mainstream education, always has been, no statement or any other extra support or intervention.

We have no other children.

DD is currently officially a CIN , but there is no named professional and in the 12 months we've had that, we've had no meetings about it or any other communication. Despite me phoning and chasing!

After a crisis point with her behaviour last year we very briefly had a family SW , but once we'd done (yet another) parenting course and DD had some sessions with a councellor, (which was meant to be for her anger management but didn't seem to do much)
it was stepped down to us having a family support worker for a couple of months.

Then we finally got back into seeing CAMHS, last autumn and that's the only organisation involved with us now.

I've only just discovered that we do class as carers thanks to you!

Never thought about claiming anything, or being a carer, just thought I was a parent,

Sorry, made a mistake above, DD is not a CIN, we do have a CAF in place though. Which is what we've had for a year now with no named person or any meetings with us ...

I've obviously not had enough coffee , today!

A CAF is a smokescreen - it brings no rights in law to anything, unlike an EHC plan in education or a care plan in social care, both of which are enforceable in law.

Keep a diary for a few weeks of what you have to do for DD, and her behaviour? There is no need for a diagnosis to claim DLA - it's about needs for care beyond what is normal for a child or young person of that age. As she is over 16, she would be entitled to decide what to do with it - but presumably there is some hobby or activity, she likes? It's a passport to carer's allowance for you, assuming your earnings are below the limit. If she gets that, she could claim ESA - I guess, she would find the money useful?

Put in a request for a carer's assessment to the Chief Executive of your local authority. When DD is 18, legally she is not your responsibility - if she does have ASD, etc she becomes the responsibility of the local authority. Assuming, she is diagnosed with something, then there should be Transition planning for her by Children's Social Services or the Transition team. Do you think she could live independently, or would her welfare be at risk?

While she may have ASD and PDA, she might on the other hand, be in the subset of ASD and borderline personality disorder? They will say personality disorder can only be diagnosed over 18, but I do wonder if the seeds of it are there before 18 (say in a young person with ASD, having struggled for years, unsupported through the education system). Only CAMHS might know?

Thank you so much for the information. I've been reading up and yes, come to similar conclusions about what we could do, looking ahead.
Can I ask, have you been through this yourself, or work as an advocate? You seem to know a lot about it.

Lots and lots to think about. Thank you and thanks for the pm

My apologies, as DD will be over 16, I think she will have to apply for PIP. Had she been under 16, it would have been DLA.

My DD is still on DLA, even though she has turned 16, because our area has not changed over to PIP yet - which confused me!

Yes it will be PIP. Its DLA, if you were on it before a certain date.

It went well, I think? Definate diagnosis of NVLD and Dyspraxia and some other stuff. Nvld is "very like Asperger's" and apparently there was some questioning if both were applicable. Praise for us as parents for supporting DD to be in mainstream education and achieving so well, and aiming to go to Uni (which was balm on all our wounds, after the previous rubbish we've had to put up with from previous CAMHS staff over many years)

I'm still not convinced about the non Asperger's diagnosis, and (curses) I forgot to ask about the AQ etc scores, as we were focussing on the cognitive assessment, nvld stuff.
Also, bit concerned nvld is not DSM v recognised, so will that impact on future reasonable adjustments/extra help for Dd

Diagnosis now officially Aspergers and Dyspraxia. Behaviour increasingly worrying and abusive though. Tbh it fits the profile of a domestic violence abuser, which is how we now feel. Bullied, abused and ground down. Frightened and on eggshells all the time.
Increasingly get accusations and outright lies, eg that we have rifled through her bedroom stuff ( we haven't, went in to retrieve mouldy smelly cups and food waste, no riffleing involved)

DH is 70 so it's also potentially elder abuse. I am on verge of contacting DV officer at local police and re refering to SW, have tried talking and reasoning with her but get nowhere. College (mainstream) finally implemented reasonable adjustments, and say they can do no more to help. She plans to go to Uni in 2019.

No idea if these will work as never been tried before as they did not believe or identify a need until the formal diagnosis was thrust in their faces.
Any ideas what to do?
We are now classed as her carers, and get called if there are issues with meds etc, so thanks for previous help and advice.
But tbh we are at our wits end and have no energy left. We have no life, she hates it if we go out without her anywhere and punishes us if we do go out. The summer vacation we got away from the house twice without her, in the evening and never in the day, not even to go to a shop. She hates shops but kicked off if we tried to go without her.
We do implement boundaries, we do follow through with meaningful consequences but they do not seem to mean anything, she just gets angry at the consequences not think about why or how she got them. And she has been like that since very young so not a new thing.
So exhausted by it all

Oh and I asked for pip form, and she agreed I could act as proxy, but when it arrived she decided she could do it herself as I was a "fucking useless cunt and just after her money" so she's taken the form to fill in. No explanation in the boxes, just ticking the basic tick box. She's not going to get PIP doing that :(

Tbh after the abuse I've been subjected to from her over just getting the form sent to her (she wouldn't/couldn't do it) , I've told her enough and I'm not helping her. I know we might get carers allowance if she gets PIP, but tbh it just gives her something else to hold over us and the abuse I've already had is appalling, and Ive had enough. I spent hours researching the pip form criteria, had a discussion with DD about how we might fill it in the day before, and yet it arrived and she filed it in not even waiting for me to photocopy it, blank ... and then I got an evening of abuse because she's made mistakes on the form.
Enough is enough. She is in mainstream college; she maintains she is perfectly capable of dealing with everything ( she is really not, but ok...) . So go ahead, at least it might minimise the abuse we get.

Sorry, venting a bit now

for you. Vent away

If she wants to change some things on the form, she can write or type them on a different sheet of paper and wite 'See attached notes' on the form.

The notes should be clearly labelled with which questions they refer to.

As she won't let you help with the form, then maybe suggest she goes to CAB or a Welfare Rights organisation if there is one in your area to let them check it over before she submits it?

Does she know she will have to attend a face to face interview as part of the PIP assessment?

It's a very complicated process to obtain PIP, as you've probably seen from your research. This (and lots of other PIP threads on MN) explains how NT people have found the process of applying for PIP works in practise,
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3350255-applied-for-pip-aibu-to-be-scared-of-being-laughed-out-the-place?pg=1

Sorry about the name change fail.