Daughter bullying me?

[Chickenloverwoman]

Daughter aged nearly 17 Since aged 3 been very difficult, rigid in what she wanted to happen around her, screaming tantrums if anything changed from what she expected or if things changed unexpectedly
Been through CAMHS several times since age five, no diagnosis although she was provided with a support worker once a week at primary school. Transitioned to secondary school, tantrums continued just like terrible threes, even though it has never got her what she demanded. As parents we've been on every parenting course suggested and done everything camhs and courses asked. Made no difference to her behaviour.
She's now nearly 17, bigger than me,stronger than me,violent to both of us on occasions, verbally very abusive hourly to me and lesser to her father, expresses disgust at me regularly and uses really vile language to us both
We regularly have to lock ourself away to protect ourself, she continues to kick the door and scream abuse at me/us even though locked away. We called the police once a few months ago but backed off from pressing charges because it would have resulted in her being taken away in a po!ice car. What parent wants to give their child a police record at aged 16?
We've done nothing (as far as we know) to cause any of this, tried to be firm but fair, given warnings then consequences but nothing seems to make her change her behaviour? She just gets furious at whatever the consequence was. ( usually loss of wifi) as advised by support workers as age appropriate consequence. She also steals stuff from us, breaking into locked private cupboards, locked because of her previous poor behaviour.
Tbh at wits end. We face another two years now she's in sixth form and in not sure how much more of this we can take. We dread coming home to the house with her in it, or school home time because its so tense around her. If this were my husband I was talking about I suspect I'd be advised to go to WA and the police. But what can I do?

Chicken yes because she is masking at school. If she has ASD she isn't fine at school; she is is using all her energy to blend in and its all coming out at home. I would push for her to be re-assessed.

They told me my DD was fine at school too. She wasn't at all. When they filled in the questionnaire things it came back same ASD traits a true home and at school but they kept saying 'we don't see anything like that in school'.

Offred your posts really resonate xxx

At primary the questionnaire the school filled in was not fine at all but CAMHS ignored it. They are well known to be a bit useless here :(

(They eventually had to listen to me as DD started refusing to go to school and telling CAMHS all her anxieties were about school)

Laurz she won't see anyone at all. Just the family support worker throws her off balance completely. Seeing CAMHS people absolutely not going to happen, or GP. She outright refuses.

Thank you! Just talking about it online is helping xxx

One of the things I have found most difficult is the isolation really. That and that the things most people suggest are parenting approaches that are designed for parents whose children are NT but are displaying challenging behaviours because of ineffective parenting and so they just don't work. The combination of the behaviour being so challenging and people requiring you to jump through hoops to do courses which actually don't help but are a lot of work can make you completely lose confidence in your parenting and then it's pretty hopeless as the child ends up dominating the whole house and everything you do.

School has been out of the equation for my DD for a year and that means she's been able to take on quite a lot of the challenges of learning coping skills rather than masking.

My DD has also been very very opposed to engaging with people that could help (though she is a lot younger). We got school to pay for a wellbeing worker and she has been fabulous. One of the main problems was DD had got so used people making promises and letting her down or saying they were going to help and discharging her or not accommodating her needs that she became deeply suspicious of anyone trying to help her. The wellbeing worker has built trust with her over a period of time in the home and she's really benefitted from that connection but it's because she has never been judgemental or shocked or reacted to any of DD's extreme behaviour. She's just ignored it as a sign of anxiety and it has now mostly stopped.

im sure this is my DS - but how do you go about getting any help for them when they refuse? - i too think at the root of it all is anxiety - he was a very "nervous" baby with the startle reflex- chronic colic so always unsettled - X could never cope with him - and would be very short tempered - do you think babies/ young children pick up on this?
I was also suffering with depression but think this was mostly under control with AD's - this is a long term diagnosis prior to DS & DD (twins).
Ive also come to the realisation that since my marriage ended i was subject to emotional & financial abuse for the 20 years - this has escalated massively since the divorce especially the financial abuse - which has resulted in me living off benefits despite X being a highly regarded individual in his profession - this has had repercussions for the kids and they have been caught in the middle.
ive come on here this morning as every morning since back at school there has been an issue with his hair - hes 16 now - he has just kicked the wall & shouted f&&king c&&t - before he left he was saying he would not go if he couldn't get his hair right - its blowing a gale - his hair is not going to last 2 minutes outside!
Its really hard trying not to react to this when my own coping ability is pretty low due to still trying to sort out the after effects of my divorce. I have the explosive child book - i need to read it - my Ds has also talked about suicide a couple of times - i read an article last night about a kid not coping well at uni - kept if from his friends and family for over a year before taking his life.
My DS is well liked at school - there have not really been any issues although he did google how to kill yourself - X thinks all this is a schoolboy prank - i dont!
im really just posting on here as need to try and help him but not sure how - so many issues still to deal with of my won before i feel sorted and all the time I can see he is struggling - is is low self esteem at the root of it all or something more complicated?

IME with DD there were several hurdles to overcome before she was able to engage with services. Some to do with her and some to do with the ways the services are.

1. Her prior experiences of services had all been negative.

1. She had difficulty with accepting the idea that she needed help because of her preconceived ideas about what needing help says about a person.

1. The structure of the services and how they are provided essentially discriminates against people on the spectrum who struggle with things like; clinical environments, unfamiliar places, engaging with new people, formality, undertaking journeys etc so the challenges of actually engaging were much greater.

What has helped;

1. My DD is a lot younger though she seems more like a teenager than a 10 year old.

1. She stopped going to school so engaging with services became the only challenge she was expected to take on (obviously there are massive drawbacks to this too, not least no education for at least a year).

1. She's benefitted from a number of home based services provided by the LA and geared around wellbeing and they have focussed particularly on getting her 'CAMHS ready'.

1. Through complaining and complaining and generally drawing attention to us I have finally got CAMHS to concede to home visits (at least for a little bit in order to get her used to the people).

(Oh and because she's not at school she has had priority service and has got an ASD diagnosis in under a year from when SALT OT and EP first informed when average time in my town is 4 years)

We've complained and complained, it got us nowhere. Do think a lot of it is anxiety driven.

They don't believe my daughter does it.
I've given up, she's currently living with her friend's family since I refuse to have her live with me.

I think when there is a lot of anger, it can be that the person doesn't have the skills to handle/control their environment in the way that they need to, and the solution would be to help them gain that skill set. I know i was an angry teenager at home, and it was because at school I did not know how to socialise and I didn't know how to get what I wanted. I think if I'd read some sort of social skills book, and maybe practiced talking to people and learning how to say No and how ask for what I wanted, I might have fared better. Just a thought.

Nothing to add. But total sympathy. Similar. Even all my knowledge of NAS and PDA doesn't make any difference.

Our primary insisted he was "fine". He was so horrible to us, and still is, now in secondary.

I have nothing to add but sympathy. You are not alone.

My dd knows, she's read it all herself but for whatever reason can not behave at home, she then shuts down so I can't support her either, and I'm terrified of her.
It's much better when she doesn't live with me, she still lies, I overheard her telling a whopper just last night, but she can no longer control me, she's generally great when she's here and she comes to me for support which she desperately needs.

Well, in the last few days we've had yet more drama and abuse from her over her new college, A level stuff. One week in and she's struggling. Cue screaming and major meltdowns. Wants to change courses but that will stop her doing what she says she wants to read at Uni. Won't listen to any thing we say. Support worker now seriously concerned about her behaviour and it's effect on us (and her) and is finally escalating various things, which in a horrible way is progress, I suppose.

My 5 year has pda and ASD however his behaviour is mostly fine - only because we constantly are adapting to his needs, bit exhausting! I can see how quickly it can go downhill. Staying on top of challenging behaviour requires a lot of skill and a lot of trial and error.

Your DD sounds like she's never been assessed properly, and sounds like her behaviour pattern has set in. For that reason I would involve the police, social services, camhs, your GP. Ramp up your contact. Parent courses are rubbish I think, on the whole. You need someone to work specifically with you, like a Sen super nanny style!

But it is also worth revisiting the behaviour and note down exactly what happens. It doesn't come out of the blue. Something triggers it. It serves some need.

An update.
College have now recognised an unmet need and made some adjustments, which interestingly are what they provide to pupils with ASD!
Dd went to GP and we think finally was honest about how she was struggling, rather than masking it. She was referred to CAMHS again and we think partly due to the other agencies being involved, her appt came through asap.
She went! When she was referred for further assessment (finally!) And councelling.
Life still v difficult both for her and for us, but at least we now have a glimmer of hope that she will get some help. She seems a little happier and calmer, although the meltdowns continue and its hard.
Huge thanks to all of you for your advice and support, it means a lot!

So glad to read that you are beginning to get some support. In your first post before you mentioned ASD, your daughter sounded so like my 12 year old who has ASD presenting as PDA. She seemed fine to teachers to but bottled up everything from the school day and exploded at home. Consequences have never worked for my DD either! It sounds like your DD has a lot of sensory issues, which I never realised was such an issue for my daughter until recently. Maybe working with her to find out what really bothers her is a good way to build bridges and let her know you are on her side. For us even changing her sheets was a huge issue as they feel different when just washed, so I now talk to DD and explain that I will just be changing 1 item (eg. Pillowcases) and will leave it a few days before changing the next item. It sounds crazy but she feels like I'm working with her and understanding her needs.

OK an update.

Thing got worse, more trips to CAMHS more inconclusive results. Prozac prescribed back in Jan, didn't seem to do much.
Feb half term just passed was a nightmare. Called emergency CAMHS number,got emergency appt with new psychiatrist. Who was lovely. And did very thorough assessment interview.

She has been diagnosed on the autistic spectrum. Several other co morbid conditions suspected. Ados assessment booked to work out exactly what she might have.

She's relieved, as are we . Hoping things will improve, now we know

Thank you to all who have read or commented. Its helped xxx

So pleased you've at last got a diagnosis, I wish you all the very best of everything and hope you can learn together and your DD finds it helpful to know why she reacts like she does and what you can all do to make life a bit more settled for her.

Thank you blanktimes