Does anyone have DC with Asperger's / HFA who is popular and not bullied at school?

[Mrsdoodle]

Hi,
Sorry I wasn't quite sure how to best phrase this, and very much hope it does not offend anyone.

DD is 7 and we have our first appointment with the paediatrician on Friday, having been referred by the GP. This was at my request and I understand they are looking at HFA.

The school have no issues with DD and consider her a model pupil who is well liked. She has lots of friends and is often invited to parties / play dates.

There are loads of other ways in which she fits the ASD criteria, including in her social interactions (e.g. struggles to join in with pretend play, often prefers the company of the teaching assistant, is obsessive about rule following).

I am concerned that everything I have read about HFA (which is a reasonable amount!) suggests that the child should be seen as 'quirky' by her peers, have difficulties with back and forth conversation and is likely to be bullied at school. Some of the issues with body language, literal interpretations, difficulties with conversational conventions etc. definitely apply to her, but never to an extent that I think would interfere with her interactions with friends. I find her a good conversationalist, when she's not doing the pestering / repetitive questioning thing. I do have concerns that her friends may overtake her socially and become less tolerant as she gets older, but I am not entirely convinced on this.

She is academically advanced (in some ways) for her age and I have no doubt that some of what she is able to do socially is learned behaviour. The literature I've read about 'masking' in girls seems to fit her very well. I also have no doubt that she finds all this extremely stressful and it feeds into her major problems with anxiety and tantrums.

My question is - if the paediatrician asks about this at the appointment, should it rule out a diagnosis? It would be really helpful to know whether anyone has a child with diagnosed HFA who copes quite well socially.

Many thanks for any help.

The school labelled my DD as social, told me she had friends. Unfortunately when she was observed by those in the know it was clear she wanted to be involved, hung around groups and although not excluded actively (ie no bullying) she was actually not integrating well into these groups because she didn't know how. She was a similar age. As time has gone by it is clear she would likely have been bullied - meanwhile she moved to a specialist school and fits in well with the social mix there.

My son has autism diagnosis and def has the repetitive and obsessive conversation, I always assume he must struggle at school then am surprised to pick him up and see he is talking quite happily with other children. Fortunately his obsessions are currently minecraft and Pokemon so his knowledge is of use to others. I think they certainly consider him "a bit odd" but accept him as he is, although not sure how long it'll last as they get closer to secondary age.

Our DS is 8. He has friends and is invited to parties. He wants friends and he initiates contact with selected children when out and about. Some children are not of interest to him and tends to be selective about who he interacts with. He is really into Minecraft and Nerf guns so most boys his age are happy to talk about those things. He's positioned himself as an expert by learning lots about these things and sharing his knowledge. He also has more obscure interests which others tolerate at the moment, but I wonder if this will continue for much longer. Up to 8, social interactions are still fairly simple. It is late primary where things get more complicated. Errors now will be ignored or forgiven but this will get less likely as they get older. I'm dreading it....

He was diagnosed last year at age 7 as his problems with food brought him to the attention of S&LTs who saw social & communication issues so had offered us an assessment around age 4. We did't think we needed a diagnosis and were confused by his pro-social behaviours so decided to wait and see. Later, once into school, food issues and behaviour worsened. Someone suggest that the school do some social observations - a teacher reported back that he was "laughing" and "had friends in the playground" so there was "no issue". We were back in touch with the S&LT about the decline in his eating by then. She re-stated her offer of an assessment and said she would send a colleague to observe. This recorded the same activity as "making subtle but significant social errors which would affect his long term relationships with peers".

It was then that I realised that the school had almost no understanding of knowledge of Aspergers-type ASD so couldn't see or understand any of his problems. They were very well-meaning but they weren't going to be much help to him if they couldn't understand. It is the quality of peer-to-peer conversations which should be used as the basis for assessment - of course your adult conversation will be OK.... until (presumably) you try to get her to discuss a non-preferred subject?

We accepted the offer of the diagnosis and it happened within a few months. I think the school were very surprised - even though the paed used quite a bit of their observations. After that I had hoped the school would improve his support but it seemed that they didn't know what to do. I asked about an EHCP and was told that he was "too able to qualify for help". I applied myself last year and his plan was finalised this July with top up funding. The EP found that DS was not 100% mind-blind which is probably why his difficulties were confusing the school. I think it is rigid thinking, sensory, motor and central coherence problems which affect our DS mainly at the moment.

The school was very surprised he got an EHCP but is now putting significant support in place which will hopefully help him avoid trouble in future. I can advocate for him and make sure his needs are met. School and home life is much better as a result. We will be able to choose a secondary school which can support him, rather than have to go to the nearest school. None of this would have been possible with a diagnosis.

My friends whose children were diagnosed late or did not access support at school are having a torrid time. If you think there is an issue, you are most probably right and having a diagnosis will help you to help your DD. Don't let them leave you in limbo - if they say they are not sure ask for a second opinion at GOSH who specialise in diagnosis of girls. Good luck

My son sounds similar TartanTerror. He takes his Minecraft book to school with him and enjoys talking about his interests. He loves to have friends but it tends to be on his terms a little bit. He recently found out about his diagnosis and has started to make an effort with being more flexible. I find I'm guilty of anxiety/symptom watching too much, for instance I was worried sick about his school swimming lessons but he ended up in the average group swimming happily and there were 'typical' kids who could barely swim and were terrified of the water. His motor skills are now improving and he is flying around on his bike and scooter, 3 years I was worried that he wouldn't be able to do that . He is quirky but hasn't really been bullied and rubs along fine with the kids who know that he dips in and out when he feels like it. The school have applied for support for an hour a day to help prepare him academically for secondary school. His attention span is hit and miss! The one strength he has is that he will give most things a try, surfing, climbing, zip wires etc and can fit in with kids that have similar interests. (He is better when activity focused)

Sorry for the spelling errors. Multitasking!

I have a very popular dd with ASD! She's a fantastic masker and copies the personalities of her friends - who wouldnt want to play with someone exactly like them

She was perfect at school, often used in school's social groups as the role model. At home, she is challenging, self/harms and has OCD like behaviour (hoarding). Her behavioural challenges presented from 3yo.

School did not support me at all, but at home she couldn't cope with play dates and birthday parties. Finally (after urgent cahms intervention at 6yo for self harming) she was diagnosed and I really can't say enough about the diagnostic capabilities of the team. Today, my 4th dd 5yo also received her diagnosis. While there presentations are different (younger dd mercifully not as challenging), the same terminology was used: surface sociability, limited social reciprocity, socially motivated but limited social curiosity.

Now 9, dd is coming a little unstuck at school. More fits of tears. She remains very popular with the people she knows and confident around them, but still has a limited grasp of how to behave. For reference, I have 4 dds aged between 5 and 10, so there is a LOT of role modelling and social interaction on display!

I have two children with HF ASD diagnoses age 11 and 13. Neither are particularly popular as such though dd age 11 loves to socialise and talks about her friends and various bffs a lot, the consistent lack of invites and the stress induced by having play dates in the past tells another story. Dd is lovely and caring but oblivious to the checks and balances of friendships, she has a very compartmentalized view of friendship and quite a low tolerance for conversation outside her own current interests. That doesn't mean she is friendless in school but she needs a lot of support to manage school, structured time with ta supervision, and she talks on the phone to me all the way home so currently she isn't socialising outside of her Family, other than at school.

Ds is more introverted, he claims not to want friends. He also chooses not to socialise outside school, he doesn't get party invites. He doesn't seem unpopular but he is solitary, at the award ceremony for the end of middle school last month he was given a huge cheer by his fellow y 8s when he was awarded a prize. But he was too distressed by the crowd and noise to collect it.

I think the way I view the need to socialise has changed since my children have received their diagnoses, as they get older I understand better how their daily challenges dealing with school, noise, social rules, facial expressions they can't quite read, tones of voice they find perplexing, confusing use of language, other people generally.... This all takes a toll, at home they can be themselves, relax, be alone with no expectations. They need this and I no longer worry about them being weird or anti social. I concentrate on keeping them happy, well adjusted and positive.

When they were aged 7 or 8 the difference between them and their peers existed but were less obvious. A little boy crying (because the shop is too noisy)is not that unusual, a strapping 13 yo having a meltdown because you are trying to get him to board a busy train - very noticeable! They were invited to more parties and were more sociable and seemed more popular. I think with hf asd the issues of social communication are more pronounced as children get older and their peers more socially sophisticated.

I think with hf asd the issues of social communication are more pronounced as children get older and their peers more socially sophisticated

I think this is why all children with an ASD diagnosis should have an EHCP for transition to secondary school (even if it was then no longer required).

I would also agree fully with your comment made TartanTerror, your first sentence in particular resonates because I have seen this at first hand with some of my friend's children when at secondary school.

"My friends whose children were diagnosed late or did not access support at school are having a torrid time. If you think there is an issue, you are most probably right and having a diagnosis will help you to help your DD. Don't let them leave you in limbo - if they say they are not sure ask for a second opinion at GOSH who specialise in diagnosis of girls. Good luck"

I also noticed that some children became far less tolerant or even forgiving of those not as "sophisticated" in terms of being readily able to read unspoken social cues particularly from late in Y5 and into Y6.

Thank you so much for all your very helpful responses. It's v interesting to hear other people's experiences.

It's so hard to know what to do - sometimes I feel sure that it's ASD and other times she seems to be missing some key elements. Maybe I am just kidding myself because it breaks my heart a bit to think of all her lovely friends getting sick of her in a few years time. But then, it's just as horrid seeing her so anxious and unhappy all the time at the moment. I guess I will just have to wait and see what the experts say.

Thank you again.

How did your appointment go?

Attila - late year 5 was exactly the point at which my dd's friends turned as well. The invitations stopped and the bullying started briefly before being nipped in the bud. These were girls who had known and been supportive towards her since pre school. It's a horrible stage that NT children go through and it continues until about the end of y8. As much as my heart breaks for my eldest, I think I might find it harder still when my NT dd goes through this awful stage! Anyway she's managed to find friends among the SEN children for now and is very happy with them. Mercifully she can see what popularity is and doesn't crave it. Op the popularity is as much dependent on the other children as it is your child so not really reflective of your child's needs and skills. My dd was diagnosed when still popular and it didn't hold back the diagnosis. The expert who saw her at school said she could see she had ASD the moment she walked into the room! Flapping her hands and talking in an over loud voice to no one in particular. School were adamant they had never seen any issue.