*10 yr old eating her poo*

[Stephanie1970]

Hi I'm desperate for any help, this is my 1st visit here.
My 10 yr old step daughter came to live with us as her mother was sent to prisoon on drug charges. We'r going through court to keep full custody, as the mother is out and now wants both the children back. They experienced such neglect from their mother and witnessed so many awful things that no youngster should.
Anyway, to cut it down, the 10yr old poo herself everyday. Rather than coming home, she'd eat it. She ate it when we visited a water park, and had it smeared all over her face, rather than going to the toilet.
Our GP has referred us to a psychologist and whilst we wait for the appt, I'm desperate for help on how to best deal with her. We've tried punishing her, (never physically, always by the removal of a fave toy etc.) talking to her, explaining that it's dirty and unhygenic, extra love and cuddles, plenty of reassurance, the school nurse even came to our home to talk to her about it ..you name it,we've tried it, or I think we have.
She's a highly intelligent child, and very clean and well presented at all times.
Apparently her natural mother knew she pooed herself, even knew she ate it sometimes, but did nothing.
I'm at the end of my tether now. I'm a depression sufferer and am battling to keep the depression back so I can be strong for the child, but I feel I'm loosing the battle. I just don't know how best to handle her. Can anyone offer advise on why she's doing this, or where I can go for help until the appointment comes through.
Like I said before,I'm DESPERATE.
Thanks for listening

Hi Stephanie - welcome to MN. I have no experience of this, but it sounds like you are doing well in a very difficult situation.
Keep your question in active conversations by writing 'bump' - someone will be able to help I am sure.

Thanks for that Hathor, I will

Hi Steph

Im sorry but I too have no experience with this sort of thing either but it sounds like your doing a great job so far.

All I could suggest is that maybe you try to make going to the toilet a game. Maybe something where she gets a reward if she does - but only gets the reward if its in the loo. It may ever be a case of you having to join in!!!

Hope you get some good advice and good luck

Hi Stephanie, welcome to Mn
You sound as though you are doing a good job for your poor dsd in very difficult circumstances, she sounds such a troubled little thing
You say you have a Psych referral in the pipeline...can the GP get this pushed through for you quickly? It sounds a very urgent need.
Also, a bit more about your step-daughter, maybe, might help people give some tips. EG
Does she have a diagnosis of a specific SEN and a statement already? Have you been able to keep her at her familiar school or have circumstances meant she has had to move? I wondered what support they were giving her.
If previous neglect means she has a social worker already, can they offer any tips on dealing with this issue?
Hopefully people with more experience of behavioural issues like this will be along soon to give more focussed advice

Hi and thanks people for your replies.
Unfortunately, she came to live with us from Scotland. We live in England. So both the girls have had a HUUGE upheval. They've settled extremely well into their new schools. It's where my 2 sons used to go, and really is a fab school. They were called horrible names at their old school and had no friends. They've both got many friends here.
They've settled into ourhome life brilliantly too. We used to always have them down to stay, for all the school holidays, and even Christmas time. And we visited them at least once every month when they lived in Scotland. So you see, the girls have known me and my boys for the last 7 years. They're 10 & 8.
The youngest is fine, unbelievably and calls me mum after only living here for 7 months. She loves the attention and care they get.
However the eldest girl was like a little mother to the youngest. She took care of her, fed her noodles and crisps everyday,made sure she was dressed in time for school, bless her. They both had severe malnutrition when I took them to the GP for a full check over.
I've told my eldest SD that she can let go of her mothering duties, that that's what I'm here for. To be honest, she was soo relieved to do that. Said it stressed her badly having that much responsibility.
She does use the toilet without any problems. We even get her to sit with her book (she loves reading)for a while on the loo, to make sure she's empty. Never have I met such a well behaved and willing child as this one, and certainly not considering what they've both been through.
I worry that inthe past something "severe" may have happened to her. (I don't want to put down the thought I'm thinking) as she's too willing to do anything to please.
Could her eating the poo be a way of her punishing herself?
I just don't know. But yes, it IS a struggle.
I feel like I've lost my eldest son now as he's too ashamed to come out with us as a family anymore. (We did everything as a family before my precious SD's came to live with us) The last time he came out with us was at a water park, and she pooed herself, and ate it, smearing poo all over her face and everyone staring at us. My youngest son is 12, and he's such a caring big brother to them,but he's starting to loose patience now.
I'm still hoping someone can offer something, anything.
Many thanks again

Sorry to hear this

Does she has any diagnosis of special needs?

poor girl
Was a social worker / GP involved in Scotland? - perhaps they may have some information that would help. Can you push for the psychologist as an urgent referral?
Sounds like your family is full of wonderful support for her.
Your sons are coping with a lot of change too. Maybe some family counselling would help you all cope with the changes.

You really need to push for that appointment with the psychologist, I think.
Is there any chance you could pay for a private consultation?
They are lucky girls in that they are now in a safe and loving family.
I hope your DSD starts to recover very soon.

Hi guys, you're brilliant for helping me like this...
Well she doesn't have any SN as such,I just didn't kow where else to post this..cos to me she IS special,and IS needy.
Our school nurse contacted their mother's social workers in Scotland to get any info they held on the kids,or that may be relevant. Apparently they only mention that she has 2 children. That's it. She also contacted the Social workers here so they could "support" us. They rang us unexpectedly one day, and asked if SD's mother has conact granted via a court. My DH took the call and said yes. They said then they're "happy to leave it as it is"??!!
I don't even know how or where to contact them. If I'd spoke to them, I'd have asked outright for help, but my DH took the call and as we were in the middle of a weekly shop at Asda he never pushed them or anything. Said he was shocked at the call and didn't know what to say.
At Christmas just gone we took the kids to Scotland to visit family and let the SD's stay overnight with their mother at the maternal gran's house. They came back to us totally different children. I had a great bond with them until this visit, but something had happened up there to change that. Shortly after this visit is when my SD ate her poo for the 1st time. (water park incident)
Another time was when her mother hadn't phoned for ages.(we have specific days set out for her to ring the children..I like them kept to a routine,and we were still trying to help them settle, rather than her just ringing them whenever she fancied) SD was understandably hurt, and so on the next phone call SD was a little bit 'cold' to her mum. Next day at the play park she ate her poo.
Her younger sis recently had an op to remove 12 baby teeth that were rotten stumps. She'd not been to the dentist in her life until she came here. Anyway,cos the little one was receiving so much attention and mollycoddling for being so brave in hospital, the eldest SD went almost insane with jealousy. She started acting like a little girl rather than the mature 10yrold she is. I had a little talk with her about not needing to be jealous, that she's loved too,just that her sis had just been through something big..(hey she was the only child there who never cried..but then again,she NEVER cries). The next day at the play park, she pooed herself,then wiped it out from her pants onto the slide (the entrance to the slide is enclosed) I have no way of knowing if she ate any this time. They are just a couple of examples as to things that happen prior to her eating it,or her having an accident in her pants.
BTW I worked very hard to get their trust back after that visit to Scotland at christmas. She was doing brilliantly until my little talk about jealousy, and then the next 'accident' occurs.
Hope this helps you, to help me.

Hi ,

Sounds like this behaviour is stress related, it sounds as though both children have suffered greatly at the hands of their mothers neglect and this behavour is how your dc 'deals' with this stress. Theyve also had big changes what with moving such a long way and changing schools etc. it sounds like your doing a great job with being there for them both giving them the consistant and care that they need and deserve It may take some time to 're-train' your dc in breaking these habits. I work with a girl who when she first went to her carers she would screech for hours on end- no identified reason and eventually with time she would screech less and less loudly now she doesnt do it.Saying that she did have alot of input with counsellors etc.

I would really push it with psychologists, g.p's, social services. It isnt easy, i know, but you really do need to push push push.

I hope you get the supoprt you need both for your sd and for yourselves.

Im not sure you mention how long they've been with you but its still early days, im also sure that your ds will adapt. after all it must be hard to have to suddenly share your parents with kids you hardly know.

Sometimes you need to shout to get the helpa nd support you need. Sad, but true.

Good luck and I hope you find some answers

You sound like you are doing a wonderful job and your SD sounds like a lovely girl. I personally feel like you hit the nail on the head when you say the poo thing is like a punishment. Maybe its because she is now happy and secure then when she has contact back she feels guilty in some way and this deliberate act of sabotage she knows can only arouse disgust in herself and in others. You sound as if you can't do enough for them and she undoubtably knows this and whilst being grateful also has some aspect of self loathing. Although I have no knowledge of anything like this I think it sounds like a form of self harming in a way as she clearly realises the consequences regarding germs and yuck factor. I have read about a condition whereby people deliberately miss the loo and poo on the floor. We had a phantom pooer at an office I worked at once (all very posh bankers) and I do remember it happening at school - obviously done on purpose. I would really start screaming to the GP for a quick referral. Presumably its not happening at school or at friend's houses. Do you think it is directly linked to you and your sons (ie, seeing what a happy family and mum you are and how much your sons love you really hits it home to her as to what she has missed out)? Would she do it if her Dad just takes her and her sister out? Is it just in public places and if so who is she out to shock (you, your sons, general public).

Sorry, tons of questions and I'm sorry I can't be of much use. I'd be at my wits end too and not be so nice about it as you are.

Good luck

bump (for wise evening people)

I think this thread is important. It is what MN is best at - sharing experience and support, especially for unusual situations. So bumping again.

Hi Stephanie, this is outside my experence also, but I wondered if the 'adoption and fostering'mumsnetters might be able to help. Contact with birth family can be extreemly hard to deal with for foster children who have suffered neglect and spark distressing or self distructive behaviour(all those conflicting emotions and loyalties I suppose). My SIL was a very supportive foster mum and had to deal with similar issues. From a distant perspective I know things improoved. I just thought there were parralels. I wonder if you can accsess similar support for your DSD. Sorry I cant help.

Hi everyone, can I thank you all very much for all your support and help. It is sooo much appreciated.
I'm not strong, or a saint. I sometimes have to take myself to my room to calm down...obviously I don't want my SD to se me getting worked up. But the support from you all is a rgeat help.
I'm sorry, I never saw the foster and adoption forum...(I really need to look around properly rather than 'jumping in' )
Flyinmum you're comments are this being a 'guilt' thing, or 'self harm/self punishment IS along the lines I'm thinking of.
Hathor, thanks for bumping this for me.
I am going to ring the school nurse again,and ask for urgent help. Sometimes, I find, you're too close to a cituation and not sure if the professionals would class it as urgent..but you all have told me this, so I'm gong with it.
I'm so glad I found MN
Thanks all again so much. I was crumbling yesterday, but feel stronger now.