Questions for those who started ABA after age 7

[eskimomama]

Hi all,

DD turned 7 in October and just started at an ABA center last month. It's only for a few hours there and a few hours at school and home (total 12 hours). She is still non verbal but we have been doing lots since she got her dx, which I could describe as a mixture of homemade TEAACH/PECS/ intervention with weekly speech therapy and OT. She's been going to mainstream preschool with an aide, and started a special needs class this year. It's far from enough but she did improve in a few areas. She has less meltdowns for sensory issues, and a much better understanding of social rules and enjoys doing calm things like writing letters or coloring.

So I was a bit surprised when the ABA center, after a few weeks of just having fun with her (to make her like going to see them), started "basic ABA" with her.
I was expecting a more tailored or advanced type of ABA because of her age, but it looks to me as if they're using the same structure as they would with a 3 or 4 year old who had never done anything else.

For instance, last week at home the educator wanted to introduce the reinforcer concept the proper way. Fair enough. But to do that, she made DD do extremely simple things that she can do easily to obtain her reward. The reward was the iPad where DD went straight to jigsaw or coloring apps, but the "work" to obtain it was : putting just one piece of a jigsaw, or 2 legos together, or coloring one tiny square.
The educator said it was just to teach her the concept of the reinforcer, but I thought the logic wasn't right, and I think DD got confused about the exercises because of that.

Also DD has a very narrow range of interests. Basically she likes the iPad or going outdoors (trampoline, park). The educator wanted to use reinforcers that I thought were more suited to younger children, such as a sensory ball (DD was interested in it for about 15 seconds), or a little character. When she was 3-4 she would have been def more interested in small objects like this but now she doesn't care or has moved on to other things.

And that's why I kind of questioned the way ABA was started with her at age 7. She is very much behind for loads of things, but isn't interested in small objects anymore. Therefore such "baby" reinforcers seem kind of silly and illogical to me.

I would be curious to hear your experience, as I'm very new to ABA even though I had read lots about it before. Thanks

We started ABA with my son at age 4. What I hadn't really appreciated was how delayed he actually was and so the tutors started with what seemed like very basic things with him and lots of rewarding the very baby steps to start with. They were completely right - this way it builds confidence and makes the activities reinforcing with lots of errorless learning. For example, I dug out some baby two piece jigsaws, then we moved quickly to 4 piece, 8, 16..... I was quite aghast at the 4 yr old on the two pieces because I hadn't really taken in his developmental level but once he got going, we built it up very quickly. They'll probably move onto a variable reward schedule (eg now she gets reward for tiny piece of jigsaw but in month will get it for more).
For reinforcers though, we use things that really motivate my son not toys the tutors think should motivate him...
If you have concerns, I suggest you speak to your providers and discuss. I am sure they can either put your mind at rest or tweak your programmes.
Good luck, hope it all works out!

Thanks sausagepickle
Great to hear your son progressed quickly and gained skills with errorless training. What have you used/are still using as reinforcers with him?
DD was confused at having to do very basic things to obtain what she wanted, and although I think the errorless training is a good idea for many areas, she has gained skills anyway without ABA in the past years, and it doesn't make any sense to go backwards (jigsaws, coloring, assembling etc.). As in, she didn't learn these "wrong", if you see what I mean. And I have a feeling that her skills are being ignored by starting standard/basic ABA now. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll move quickly. She has very few hours a week so it's not going to be intensive ABA anyway.
Did you also start using ABA for everyday things with your son? And how did this go?

using basic/mastered skills to teach how the reinforcerers work makes sense. I guess the basic 'having fun' is a lot more refined than it seems. The therapists need to bond with her and get to know her.

We have Aba therapists for a few sessions but I also went onto courses and read a lot. We use Aba principles also with DD at home. I don't think there is much point of a 'programme' if you don't understand and apply the basic principles at home. it can be relatively easily embedded into every day activities.

i was expecting a more tailored or advanced type of ABA because of her age, but it looks to me as if they're using the same structure as they would with a 3 or 4 year old who had never done anything else.

Aba should be tailored to the needs of the child. there is no 'typical 'programme' for 3-4 years old.

A HF 3/4 year old would need very different input to the non verbal delayed 7 year old. I think you have very unrealistic expectations of Aba (I mean this kindly). I am a bit puzzled why you use Aba.I wouldn't use an intervention I don't understand.

Also therapists need to work out what she really can and can't do so am sure they'll move on when appropriate - speak to your consultant/provider if you don't understand or want to question the approach. I hadn't appreciated how delayed or non-functional some of my sons skills were when we started. If they're using the VBMApp they should be able to show you skill plotting (afraid I don't know what other skills maps may show as we use that one).
Yes we try to embed ABA principles in our day to day and reinforce what is being taught/reflect approach. Our team gives us guidance in how to tackle certain issues. To ensure best progress whatever therapy you're using consistency is key.
For reinforcers we use iPad, Tv, favourite toys and sometimes snacks. we also use token economy and he gets choices of preferred
Activities after non- preferred activities. However it has taken a long time to get to this point - early days were 30 seconds on something new then 5 mins of super fun. Good luck!

coffeemachine I see what you mean, and I certainly didn't expect ABA for a 7 year old not using reinforcers anymore. I knew exactly that they were going to use them. I'm just questioning why they seem to use toys and exercises that would have been more suited to her when she was 3 or 4. They spent a month bonding with her (and she does love them, which is great!), and I spent a lot of time discussing with them about how they would work with her. Probably too theoretically. I also read quite a few books on ABA, spoke with parents who started ABA later, and even asked feedback on mumsnet prior to joining this ABA center, so I don't think I have an unrealistic understanding of ABA. So far I have a very positive impression of the educators and psychologists there, but I am unsure about their way to get started. Being non verbal doesn't mean she will respond to baby toys/games (especialy as reinforcers!) or exercises.
For instance Peppa Pig would have been a massive hit as a reinforcer when she was younger, and now she can't bothered it anymore. My 6 year old nephew told me he doesn't like Peppa Pig either anymore because "it's for babies" . Do you see what I mean? I truly believe that despite her autism everyone should respect her age too and not treat her like a younger child.
Hope I make sense

well, my NT 6 year old who very advanced (cognitively, doing school stuff above her year group), loves loves loves peppa pig.

If you feel uncomfortable with the approach, then speak to the team - they should be able to explain.

my 9 year old with ASD and learning diffs also loves peppa pig. I wouldn't see anything wrong with it per se.

Well I also love Peppa Pig I secretly wish DD still enjoyed it too so maybe she just doesn't like the show anymore.

sausagepickle Your reinforcers sound similar to what might work with DD. Do you limit the iPad the rest of the time? DD spends a lot of time on the iPad but we decided not to restrict her access to it because it's not obsessive and she is learning a lot from it. It's more like her only real toy.

I don't know if they're using VBMApp but they spoke of something similar so I'll definitely check. Thanks for the feedback.

Yes we restrict the iPad. My son will happily stim on the iPad for hours (flicking between favourite shows and bits of them) if we let him. We have the same rules on iPad for him and NT kids (they share it).