DS's after school meltdowns are driving me to drink!

[NewMoonOnMonday]

DS (5 and ASD) is uncontrollable every day after school. He's shouting, swearing, screaming and hitting me. I'm totally sick of it. He's out with P (we're seperated and he's moving out on Friday) at the moment and I'm winding down with a vodka and coke. I'm at the point now where I'm dreading collecting him from school.

He comes out of the class-room and launches into a big tale-tell about all the other kids in his class - A kicked me today, B pushed me, Mrs C looked at me crossly, D sat in my chair. I WANT to listen to this and try to work out whether he's being picked on by the other kids, or whether it's just him getting very sensitive about nothing. I know that sounds harsh but DS will scream at me to stop pushing him if I just touch him. He won't tell me any more about his day - it's like he's reporting his day to me 'headline' style. Then he's off chasing after kids who just ignore him and then he gets upset (understandably again).

The journey home is always horrible. If I collect him, we walk home. If P collects him he takes the car. Which ever happens it's the wrong thing. He wants to walk when P has the car and he wants the car when I collect him. So either way he moans all the way home. It's actually worse when P collects him because I can hear him moaning and crying as they're coming up the stairs and I'm always hopeful that today might be a good day.

We then have another tantrum because I want him to get changed. It doesn't matter how long I leave it, it's never a good time for DS to get changed out of his school clothes. This afternoon he chucked all his clothes at me, called me a bitch, elbowed me in the face, told me he hated me, screamed etc etc...

I'm so sick of it. Beginning to feel like the school day isn't long enough. Im gutted that this is parenthood for me and gutted that DS's having a miserable time at school. I'm sure that he's behaving so bad when he gets in because he's sad that he's not fitting in at school.

I'm not looking for any advice really, just wanted to sound off to people who know what I'm talking about. Not in the mood for talking to real life friends with NT kids and hearing that their kids are 'exactly the same', when I know they're not.

Has your child just started school?
My DD has AS tendencies and every day after school she would have a big wobbler as soon as she came in.. what ever I did, it was just going to happen. These generally happened when she had just started school or changed into a new year. It took us until year 4 to notice a pattern! My husband rang from work one day and asked if her wobbler was over yet or should he go to the pub!
No advice really... just sympathy...
how long has it been going on for?

He started school in September 06. Before that he was at nursery for 2.5 hours Mon - Fri, so it's a big change for him. Having to stay for lunch and having a big unstrctured break are probably hard work for him. It's really difficult to know why he's upset, but even when I do know it's also difficult to reassure him/explain to him because his language is very basic. Before he was at school I understood almost everthing he said because I was always with him so could make an educated guess (his speech sounds are a bit confused) but now I don't know what he's done all day I'm struggling to understand him.

He was ok for the first couple of weeks of school - a few teething problems but it was ok on the whole. Since going back after the Christmas holidays he's had a meltdown every day though.

Would it help at all if you had a home/school book, and asked the staff to jot down the main things that happen in the day? That way you'd find it easier to undertand what he is saying, and that might help with the behaviour?

How is his behaviour n school? what stratgies are the school using?

NewMoononMonday

I feel for both of you.

The first thing I would ask of you is whether your son has a Statement of special needs. If not, I would seriously consider applying for such a document asap. You as the parent can write to the LEA asking for your son to be assessed with a view to getting such a document. It is daunting a prospect yes but it may be an option worth pursuing. Don't let school write the request to the LEA as they cannot appeal but you as the parent can.

I was going to ask the same question that Martianbishop has posed re school. What has the SENCO said?

It seems to me that he is barely coping with his school day. Thus you're getting the brunt of his frustrations to do with school when he leaves there.

He has an IEP MB, but it only really points out that he has problems with motor skills, so the strategies in place are to help with that development, ie. support for dressing and undressing for P.E and help with holding a pencil correctly.

He's very quiet at school - you could say nervous really. I don't KNOW this, but I suspect that he's taking his frustration out on me because he's not being accepted by the other children in his class. He's always calling out to other kids when I collect him but they just ignore him

We had a meeting with his teacher before Christmas and she said she was surprised to hear that DS has such a serious DX as she wouldn't have picked him out as a child with SN. Not sure what to make of that really. It irritated me as well as pleasing me.

I suggested a home/school book when he was in nursery but it didn't happen. His teacher just said that they would always tell us if something happened that we needed to know about and that it was perfectly normal for children not to want to speak about school to their parents. I know this is true, but I would like to know mundane things about his day as well as important things, as DS finds it hard to tell us even when he really wants to.

As far as I can tell, he's extremely well behaved in school. He's devestated if he gets told off, but he's very rule oriented so that's to be expected of him. He's devestated if he gets spoken to harshly by his teacher.

I would have a word with his teacher and explain how things are going at the end of the day. Explain that knowing what has happened will help your understanding, and hopefully reduce the tension/acting out at the end of the day.
When are you due an IEP review? Can you put in some targets for behaviour that might 'spill over' to cover the end of the day?

Sorry Attila - I started replying to MB before you posted and then I got called away.

He doesn't have a statement. His Paed. applied on our behalf when he was DX'd in Sept 05, but it was refused.

I've been told over and over by friends who also have children with SN's that we need a statement for DS, but (and I know this sounds lacklustre and unmotherly) I am sick of it all. I'm so p*ssed off with sticking my neck out and demanding things and being treated like an obsessive parent.

I will look into statementing again, but I wish someone at the school would see that DS isn't coping and support me in this. All they see (and I understand why, I'm not having a go at teachers at all) is a quiet little boy with delayed development.

I totally agree that he's only just coping with school and is having a go at me when he's home to let off some steam. I don't really mind him sounding off with me, but I wish he'd do it at school too. It actually pisses me off that he's so well behaved there because it makes me feel like I've done something to make him feel insecure.

MB, his IEP was renewed in October. I'm not sure when the next one is due, they don't seem to be that regular. I will ask about the home/school book in the mean time though. I will tell his teacher about the behaviour after school problems at the same time. Just wish I didn't always feel like such a PITA.

Hi

I always used to know if my son had been good at school rather than having a meltdown because he was revolting at home and vice versa! It did get much better but was fairly dire when in infants. He had a phase of not wanting to come home at all (which made me look like I beat him or something)I worked out eventually he was scared of the washing machine being on! What I found helpful with both of mine (oldest - Aspie, ASD dyspraxic ++++ youngest - just stroppy!) is to go through my expectations of what they would be like when I picked them up. Really let him know how upset you get by this behaviour (you sometimes have to lay it on a bit thick) Possibly (this might be tricky but it does work for my chap) get really very very angry and have your own 'mini tantrum' back at him (it seems to get the message in but I think it really depends on the child). Then in the morning tell him who is picking him up, when and how and then say "what are you going to do?" to which he should hopefully reply "be good" or the like and then say very very firmly "what are you NOT going to do?" This way it sets a sort of rule and as he likes rules and seems to be OK and well behaved in school he can obviously assimilate and ascertain acceptable and unacceptable behaviour. Our poor kids they are still so little and my chap's handwriting is still dreadful and his motor skills only just improving so for our children they have to expend triple or even quadruple the amount of effort just to sit still, hold a pen, interpret the world and process what is going on. His revoltingness is just an overreaction and it will get better as gradually things improve. He could do with showing some of this behaviour at school - that u'd get em moving on the statement front. If a kid is nice and quiet nothing much happens if you are not carefull.

Best of luck

You have my total sympathy re the statemting thing. parents shouldn't have to fight to get what their children need. It is just so unfair.

I know that there are lots of MN who have been in the same situation.

you are not being a PITA! You are trying to do what is best for your son, under a system that sucks.

Trust me, I know that as a teacher, there comes a point where the school will end up blessing you for pushing for the extra help, because in the end there will come a point when they see the need, and be glad that you were on the ball IYSWIM

You know it's not that. He just holds everything in at school because he has to and you are the only safe place where he can let go.
Couple of ideas. Tell him in the morning who is going to pick him up and how he is going to get home, maybe even put it on a note in his pocket with a picture of a stick man or a car. Give him something to eat when he comes out of school and a drink to distract him and to get his blood sugar back up. My son is horrendous when hungry. Very emotional. Don't expect a lot of a chat about his day. My perfectly NT husband told me he said 'I can't remember' to his mother's inquiries about his day for his entire school career! My ds is hard to understand sometimes too, so sympathies. I think you need to have short meetings with the teacher every so often and be relaxed about information. My ds volunteers stuff when I least expect it. Also, I don't need to do this so much now, but my ds used to be very, very emotional and angry when coming home from nursery and I found it helped to drop everything, and just sit on the floor and hold him quite tightly for a while. It really helped him calm down and then he was lovely again.
Sympathies also re the friends thing. My ds struggles with that too, though I have to say, he does tend to completely blank anyone shouting his name!

Yes, sometimes I too am very strict and no nonsense with him if he's going into a tantrum. It kinds of shocks him out of it. Depends on what kind of tantrum it is, really - which is no help really!
I also do the 'what will you say/do' thing. Especially if we are going to someone's house or they are coming to ours as he hates people to leave or to leave himself and screams and shouts and cries. I now do a stern pep-talk about how he is going to say goodbye nicely so people will think what a lovely little boy I'd like him to visit/me to come again soon, and what are you not going to do? ds: 'have the screaming habdabs'!

Thanks for all your replies. I've quickly read the last 3 posters posts, but then DS came in screaming because P used his key and he wanted him to knock (sighs). I'm just dishing up dinner and then I'll be back to read properly.

this 'rebound' after school is still one of the things i hate the most about my life with aspergers.

your son is doing exactly what mine did at same age...holding it together all day - only to release it with you.

we're told we are the victim cos they feel safe with us...and cannot let it out at school...but that has never comforted me.

my sons are 13,10 and 7 the elder 2 have aspergers- and the younger is being 'considered' for it too... so i am afraid that in my case we have not got out of this rebound effect as one of mine is always provoking the other....you may find that in time it does get easier for you.

just wondering...do you have this every day...or is it like in my case where it is worse for the first week or 2 of new term...last few days before xmas hols...being affected by all the 'getting used to being at school/home from school/and back at school'

we also had the same behaviour on saturdays...then i realised that it was the change of routine from the school week...so now we make a big thing about 'friday nights' being the end of the school week...and talk about not having to get up for school etc...and generally its better.

last week my 10 yr old refused to even speak to me AS HE CAME OUT OF SCHOOL....or as i FOLLOWED HIM HOME... me not daring to get too close...him constantly checking over his shoulder....me carrying his bag/lunch bag etc that he'd discarded on the path as he 'grey faced' walked past me. when home he was in floods of tears .... and all because he'd called out the answer to a question in class (rather than put his hand up...sound familiar????) and as a result he got told off...but it wasn't that he was cross about...is was that aparently noone else knew the answer...and cos he called out they all wrote it down on their sheet...and the teacher tried to explain that if DS had kept quiet...he would have been the only one to get a 'team point' ...whereas in fact she gave thw whole class one . (i'm not too bothered about his teacher doing that... she is sympathetic to his AS....and how she handled this is similar to what i do with him- ie i explain consequences and tell him off if need be....

Flyingmum - I will try telling him who's picking him up from school when I drop him off. I'm in the process of seperating from his dad (we're still living together, but he's preparing to move out) and I was chopping and changing who collected him from school because I thought it was showing DS that both of us are still around and we're both involved in his life equally - neither of us have explained about the seperation but he's said some things that indicate that he understands what's happening to some degree, but I'm not sure how he understands - he's either overheard conversations or a family member has spoken to him about it without realising that he doesn't know. However, I think I may have made things worse for him by varying who collects him at school. I hadn't even thought of that before, but he does like things to be routine and predictable.

MB - You're right, it's the system that sucks and I'm sure that most teachers care about the children they teach and get just as fed up with it as the parents do. DS's teacher is really nice and she seems to have a genuine affection for him. If only he was bold enough to kick off in her classroom and show her what he can be like at home... but she has a class of 25+ 4/5 year olds and DS is not the only one with SN and I feel like I'm expecting her to be as sensitive to DS's needs as I am - totally unrealistic, I know. And as DS's mother I'm stupidly reassured when she tells me that he's fine in class. I know she means that she's no reason to be concerned about him but that's because he's on his best behaviour and then explodes when he see's me. I feel like I sound like I'm bordering on teacher bashing - and I'm not at all, just trying to be realistic.

Aloha - I'm torn between sobbing on the floor with him and shouting back at him. Sometimes I feel so angry...

I will try giving him food before getting him changed though. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh there.

Missus F - the meltdowns have happened every afternoon since the beginning of term. He did have them last year but not every day, but then he'd only just started school and he'd had quite a few days off due to sickness. The class has twice as many pupils now though as it did last year due to the January in-takes so maybe that's something to do with it. Sorry to hear that your DS got so upset about the test at school. Not at that stage yet but I can imagine DS being outraged as well. I sooooo much wish that he would relax and stop getting so bothered about things that don't really matter.

So feel for you and so tired of hearing how good my ds1 has been at school then fending off screaming heebyjeebies when we get home. mine has as and started this jan - really know the gutted feeling too -goes without saying that i love him to bits too!
I'm trying bribery - running through what i expect him to do when we get home and then what treat he'll get after tea if he behaves nicely! oh and i'm not even attempting to get him changed - just bought lots of very cheap uniform and doing lots of washing!
if one more friend says we're all a bit autistic or my (nt) child is obsessive - i may well invite them to spend 24 hrs in my house!
Sorry to hear it's crap for you too

lol @ 'we're all a bit autistic'. Yes, I like to make lists and collect things, but it doesn't interfere with life or cause chaos for other people.

If I mention treats to DS he won't stop going on about it until I give it to him 'now'. Same with warning about punsihments. I've removed toys due to bad behaviour and bought presents in reward for good behaviour. It doesn't work for him though because he's fixated on the punishment/reward and doesn't associate it with the reason I'm doing it. Feel like I'm dealing with an alien sometimes - sorry, I feel like people must read my posts and think that I'm a horrible, unfeeling mother.

Hi NewMoononMonday,

Re your reply to me they are all perfectly understandable.

I know of someone whose son is AS and is a few years older than yours. He has no statement and the whole junior school issue is a nightmare for him and this family. The problem is the same; is okay academically at school but meltdowns at home are daily and his Mum gets the brunt of it.

Am glad you are going to look into statementing again; you are not an obsessive parent for demanding same. Think the system to some extent relies on people to get so ground down and fed up with it all that they understandably give in. We only got out statement for our son by being a complete pain in the bum and showing them we were not going to go away. BTW my son is the only one in his year with a statement; this saddens me not because he's the only one with this but because there are three or four others in his year (same for the other years no doubt) who need this level of support and do not have it.

I would say that the best person to write to the LEA is YOU; not the paed and certainly not the school. Neither can appeal the decision if the LEA say no. If you write the letter you know its been done then and just as importantly you CAN appeal the LEA's decision if they say no. You can also get IPSEA on side (www.ipsea.org.uk) with statementing issues and problems. They even have model letters you can use.

Have you talked with the NAS as well?. Have heard good things about them.

Thanks Attila

Haven't been intouch with the NAS, but will have a look on their website. Thanks for advice about IPSEA as well.

I think most of us with AS children have the same kind of thing after school NewMoonOnMonday. I find it best to let my DS "de-stress" by playing on the computer when he comes home. He refuses to tell me anything about his day and gets enraged if I ask him anything about it! He likes to keep school and home completely seperate. He is 7 and I suppose is slightly better now than he used to be after school-but I think this is simply because we have learned not to expect anything of him at that time.

Thanks Tiggiwinkle

He's got a really high termperature at the moment and he's started coughing - the usual signs that he's going to be sick. Feel horrible, but I'm relieved that there'll be no school for a couple of days.

I know I need to just leave him to wind down after school but I really want him to talk to me about it. I know he gets upset because the boys don't involve him with their games (MIL is the school cook and she helpfully fills me in) and I want to reassure him and make it all better for him when he's home. He's so angry all the time and I know he's hurting.

He did chat a bit about school at bedtime today. He let me tickle his back and was saying that his favourite friend doesn't like him anymore and this boy now has a new friend who doesn't like DS . I told him he could stay at home tomorrow because he's not well and he said that he hated school