ds1 (3.5) refusing to come home from pre-school or anywhere

[MrsKoala]

I would really appreciate some advice. ds1, who has suspected ASD, has been going to pre-school for a year now. He absolutely loves it and loves the other children (he loves all other children and wants to be friends and play with every one he sees and doesn't understand if they don't) but since christmas he has been refusing to come home. I have to physically drag him home kicking and screaming, which is hard because he is big and i am also pushing ds2 in the buggy. He bites and scratches me. I am covered in bruises.

He goes 5 half days a week. Mon and thurs afternoons and tues, weds, fri mornings and stays for lunch tues & weds. These are the only sessions available.

This week it has got so bad that on Tuesday (the worst day as his best friend stays on) he smashed up the house when we got home, slamming and kicking the doors, pulled all the pictures of the mantle piece, tried to climb out of the window, bit ds2, was choking and gagging and banging his head on the walls he was so hysterical. I had to lay on the floor holding him tight to stop him hurting himself or us.

Today i tried to bribe him with a trip to lidl on the way home to get a cookie, which hasn't worked before but seemed to today. But when we got in there he didn't just want his cookie he wanted to get a trolley and do a full shop (he loves food shopping) i said no, that we had to get home becasue grandad was watching the baby but he ran away and i spent about half hour chasing him around the supermarket. I had to hide like a prat and jump out as he ran past, i caught him by his hood and then had to drag him home kicking and screaming. When we got in he laid on the floor screaming for half an hour.

This happens now when we have to leave anywhere, bounce, soft play, shops, parks etc.

The paed and the people who have met him say he is so focussed on what he wants that nothing else even exists to him.

But i cannot go on like this. As much as he loves pre-school and as much as he has developed and thrived there i am tempted to stop taking him. I know it sounds terrible but i could just let him watch paw patrol all day and not get beaten up.

I don't know how much longer i can do it.

Does he like songs? Could you promise him a new song to sing together in the car instead?

I would happily pay a pound a day to not have to drag him home and get stared at and beaten up!

The frustrating thing is we always then end up having lots of fun - doing play doh, playing hide and seek or even curling up and watching minions. He forgets all about it and has a great time.

oh god nooo! he hates all 'art' even if they are nursery rhymes. He doesn't really like much. I know that sounds terrible. But apart from pure thrill seeking there isn't much consistency. He likes watching some things on Youtube but the promise of that isn't enough. Perhaps if i had it on a tablet or something and he could see it at school it might tempt him more.

We used transition objects too littlefish and it also worked well sometimes.

Interesting. His understanding of future events is non existent and gets him very frustrated. He has in the last month started to grasp past slightly, but says that everything happened yesterday. I think linguistically he just thinks the word yesterday means 'before now'. So he will say 'i ate my dinner yesterday' when he has just finished it. Or talk about something that happened a long time ago (like when he ran away and we lost him almost a year ago) as yesterday.

I am not sure what he 'sees' when he looks at pictures but they don't seem to mean anything to him. So if you say 'draw mummy' he would get confused and annoyed and say he can't. Even when i do a stick drawing and say what it is he looks baffled. I think the 'thing' to him is a feeling, a smell, a texture, a sound etc

Touching things and songs may work better. He likes me doing a once upon a time story to describe what is happening.

No he doesn't read but is interested in letters altho he cannot recognise any and gets all the phonics mixed up (he doesn't even recognise his name and says things like 'talk me this book' when he means read - i'm not sure if he realised the words relate to what i am saying out loud yet). He reads numbers well tho and counts things properly rather than saying them by rote.

The paed mentioned social stories, but i'm not really sure what they are. I'm not very imaginative so can't make things up very well.

That's fantastic thanks so much. I thought i was going to have to sit down and make something up and i know it would just be shit. Often when he is struggling with something he will say 'do once upon a time mummy' and i sink inside because i have no idea what to say so i just describe what is happening, like 'once upon a time there was a little boy called ds1 and he had to do x but really didn't want to and it was making his mummy sad etc' then he often asks me to say it again a few more times and he seems to 'get it' a bit more.

He need things to physically happen to him before he understands them. Like he has been clean at night for a while now but wont go to the toilet before bed because he doesn't need to. Last night he hadn't gone for ages and he still wouldn't go, i told him he might do a wee in the night, but he looked blank and kept saying he didn't need one now. At 3am i woke up wet and he had wet the bed (we still co sleep). This morning he said 'yesterday i weed in the bed' and i said that's why you need to go to the toilet before bed and he seemed to understand. I know that's fairly standard for all children but he does seem a little behind compared to others in abstract thought.

Hello!

Yes I've used social stories with DS and for him they prove to be useful.

I use the Carol gray book but it's very heavy in language and probably quite difficult for a pre schooler to understand. However because it comes with a DVD and in word you can adapt it to meet your child's needs and level of understanding.

Social stories are based around 10 criteria and describe a situation, skill or concept. It's not about changing the child's behaviour as such but to share information about what's expected and develop an understanding of what will happen and expectations.

Personally I'd use an already written story and adapt it. I've been using them for years and still struggle to write one from scratch!

Morning. Sorry, haven't had time to read the full thread but have read OP and this last bit about social stories, which was why I was pointed in this direction.

I used social stories for years with my son from about age seven and they were very effective. I think they work best in conjunction with other strategies, rather than as a stand-alone tool. They also need to be tailored specifically to the individual, even if (as You are says) you take a pre-written one and adapt it. It must reflect the child it's aimed at or it'll be far less likely to have any impact.

One thing people often forget is that it's recommended to make 50% of your stories positive ones that reflect achievement. Eg I wrote one each time my son had a karate grading, or went up a swimming level, or even if he'd just had a good day. This gets the child used to using social stories as a tool, but in a positive way, and it also gives you both something nice to look back on when times are rough so you can remind yourselves that there are nice bits too.

The Carol Gray method is quite technical and tbh I found it a bit too cumbersome. The NAS has a much easier way of writing them here.

I'd be wary of going full-tilt on social stories with one so young though. I think most children need to have a degree of self-input for them to be optimally effective, especially if it's for correcting or guiding a particular behaviour. Might be better to write some achievement ones for now with the aim of using them later for areas you want to improve on.

I wonder if he might respond better to Choice Cards? My son was a bit odd in that he needed to know negative consequences of his actions, so in some situations social stories had no impact. Choice Cards enabled him to see that any negative consequences resulted from his decisions, and see that there were alternatives to consider. If you're interested in seeing them, PM me with an email address and I'll send samples. I also have lots of examples of social stories but tbh I think your son would be way too young for the style I used.

For pre school situation I'd say something like.

Some days are pre school days. Ds usually goes to preschool on X,y and z morning.

Most of the time DS loves pre school and likes to go.

Sometimes DS doesn't want to come home at the end of pre school.

That makes him feel sad and he gets angry.

When preschool finishes all the children have to go home.

When DS goes home he can have fun doing other things and can play with his toys.

Ds can back to preschool another day and have fun there.

It's basically about not setting things in stone or teaching them X,y and z will happen (because we can't promise that). More about teaching the bigger picture of what the preschool routine involves and feelings that may go along with that.

But like I say I'm not great at writing them from scratch (the fully correct way!) but this sort of thing works for my DS.

Would it work better if i said 'the story of the day is DS1 did a wee in the bed'. Also i wasn't cross or anything with him and he isn't upset by it. The only thing that bothered him was getting a bit cold when i changed him. He then spent 2 hours twiddling my hair tho as he finds it hard to go bat to sleep if woken in the night.

I don't want him to feel bad in any way so i would want the story to just be positive.

My mum took him to the shop and he wouldn't leave when she wanted and had a meltdown so she told him he was a very naughty boy and everyone was staring and looking at him (my mums worst fear is strangers judging her - her first response to every situation is what will anyone watching think) crying thinking he is naughty and laughing at him being so silly. Since then he has been a little anxious when out if he cries or gets normally upset (falls over and hurts himself) and says 'everyone is looking at me and thinks i am naughty/silly'. I have had words with her. I could brain her for saying it. It's the type of shit she used to say to me and made extremely socially anxious.

But he really takes things personally and i would worry that any social story with him doing something 'wrong' may affect his view of himself. Not sure if that makes sense. I am fiercely over protective i know

I get what you're saying MrsK - it's hard to point out something negative when the child himself hasn't noticed it, but you know it needs to be addressed to avoid problems in the future.

I think your verbal stories sound good and they seem to be effective, so if it works, stick with it. You said you're never sure what to say so maybe you could write some basic social stories for yourself to act as a prompt for your verbal ones. Would that help?

It's usual to write social stories in first person, from the child's perspective, so they can relate better to the situation and how it affects them personally, but if it works better in third person then I'd go with that. There aren't really any hard and fast rules because children aren't text book - if you need to tweak to fit his needs, then do that.

Sorry cross post. Yes i am way more comfortable with them just being about something great ds has done - lots of things every day. He is really kind and generous and if he ever has a biscuit his first response is 'and one for DS2' or if there is only one cookie he breaks half off to give to ds2. Things like that i would like to highlight to him as he is getting a negative view of himself and saying things like 'i'm silly, i'm always silly' or 'i alway do things wrong' or 'i'm not good at x' . It breaks my heart because i don't know where he is getting it from. He also doesn't say it in sad way, more a matter of fact way.

As i said upthread he copies everythign other do and say so i suspect the other children at school say it and he just believes it as gospel. He has no level of enquiry really he has never asked why or questioned anything anyone says. He just takes everything at face value.

I think the topic of sharing a biscuit and generally being kind is a good example of a positive social story, with lots of potential. You could write examples of things he does that show he is a thoughtful person, and add that "this makes my mummy proud".

One thing I must say. I understand you're keen to make changes because things are challenging for you, but try to be patient, read about social stories and other strategies (that NAS link should be helpful), and think about how you're going to approach it carefully before you start using the strategies with ds. Better have a couple more weeks of planning and have a greater chance of success than dive in too quickly and find it doesn't work. Social stories could be very useful to you in the coming years and your son already sounds responsive to this kind of discussion, so you don't want to discourage his interest in engaging with them before you've even started. Take it slowly.

oh yes, i'm not planning on doing it yet i will read around it first and maybe discuss it with his early years lady. I am just thinking of hypothetical starting points in my head - i too am not great at abstract thought!

Thank you all - i feel more positive.

Glad to hear it! Come back and talk more if you need to, and do PM me with an email address if you want to look at some examples of Choice Cards.

For me - and for the reasons you've said above - that's why I don't ever say DS behaviour or reactions are bad or mention them negatively etc.

It's usual for anyone to feel sad they have to leave somewhere they like. So I try and tell DS that he may feel that way but.... He can have fun doing other things and he will go back. So it's reminding him it's not the end - it's not leaving and that's it iyswim?

Like streaky said children aren't text book and respond differently to different styles and differing inputs. I'd be using 'I' instead of DS in my example above.

I don't go into feelings and recognising them etc during the stories because DS isn't yet really able to do this - but I do put in a strategy to manage anxiety and point out next step.

Eg, we went in holiday last year and DS was really anxious about airport. There are 101 things that won't be set in stone in this environment!

I showed him pictures and put these in the story. He carried this around the airport and as well as a reminder of things distracted him from the numbers of people around him iyswim?

So for the human X Ray machine that DS was really worried about going through I said....

I have to walk through the grey X Ray machine. Everyone has to walk through the grey X-ray machine. My mum will walk through before me so I can see it's ok.
I will smile and walk through slowly. I know that it may make a noise so I can wear my ear defenders if I want to.
The adult in uniform may ask me to stand still and they may have to wave a magic wand over my body.
This may make me feel sad and my body may feel different.
I can take deep breaths and have my comfortable thoughts then when we have finished we can go to McDonalds for breakfast.

picture cards are great and if you haven't already invested in a laminator I'd do it!

We did a 'made up story about real things' every night before bed with ds2.
There's an imaginary family (that's exactly like our family but with slightly different names). They always have their breakfast, lunch, tea & our bedtime routine- what a handy coincidence!

In between the meals, they used to do whatever we did in thart day. Then they got a bit more adventurous & started to try out what we might be doing tomorrow.

Now they actually do imaginary impossible stuff (like flying to the moon) with segments of our real day inserted. StoryBoy was upset that he was late for school, so he kicked Mummy and wouldn't get out of the space rocket; then Mummy found his book bag and they had a big hug